Algae Scrubber Advanced

[Brummie]

Ahh - seems like the pictures have gone pear shaped. IOS7 problem no doubt. You can find them on Floyds site if interested. Sorry

Edit - bloody strange, tapa tapa seems to be ok

[salty joe]

I have been considering something similar, what you have looks great!

[Brummie]

Unlike Mr Monica I have spent time testing and have found this to be the most efficient and simple form of scrubbing. Get one going, reap the benefits.

[Floyd R Turbo]

It's an RC bug. Pics posted via tapatalk will not show up correctly. Also if you quote a post via tapatalk you will see the BB code. Here I am re-quoting your post via my PC and you should now be able to see all the pics.

Originally Posted by Brummie

It's a fully submerged, wave augmented horizontal scrubber. I started off doing experiments with surge devices and growing algae inside them maybe 5 months ago, and got growth rates in excess of my waterfall;

This is the growth I had on my waterfall;



This is my small surge device that took a couple of months to fully mature;



Now after successful testing, I have put a simple large 13x10 (old waterfall screen) horizontally in my sump. It was initially "surged" with the small surge device pictured above. Growth was good but not brilliant;






If you look closely at the screen, you can see trapped photosynthetic oxygen (bubbles). To me, that indicates inadequate flow. So I changed from the surge device to a DIY wave maker (pump directed straight up to the sump surface).

Now, growth seems to be increased;



And without bubbles;


Over the next few months I expect further improvement and will be documenting it.

[Brummie]

Should probably start a thread, but hey ho!
Immediately after harvest;



+24hrs;

[salty joe]

Originally Posted by Brummie

Should probably start a thread, but hey ho!
Immediately after harvest;

IDK, this thread is about algae scrubbing. Something like this will fit my sloooowly developing system well.

I'd love to see your plumbing details. Your system looks outstanding!

Thank you Floyd, for getting those pics up.

[Brummie]

Originally Posted by salty joe

IDK, this thread is about algae scrubbing. Something like this will fit my sloooowly developing system well.

I'd love to see your plumbing details. Your system looks outstanding!

Thank you Floyd, for getting those pics up.

Oh well, this thread seems a bit quiet lately anyway

+ 48hrs



+ 72hrs

[salty joe]

Growth looks great!
How do you hold the screen in place?

What wattage and how many (looks like deep red 660 LED) are you using? How close to the water are they?

Your screen is 13x10. Are we talking inches?

Wavemaker from the bottom, hmmmm. I hope you don't mind if I copy that idea from you.
I was going to run a wavemaker in the conventional horizontal position.

[Brummie]

Salty - the screen is held about 3 inches below water surface by a Perspex (plexiglass) bracket made to hang in my sump. light is supplied by. Chinese 50w grow led, and a 27w Chinese.

4 days after harvest;


5 days


Edit - yep, it's inches

[Nizz]

Originally Posted by Brummie

Edit - yep, it's inches

That's what she said!!!

[Floyd R Turbo]

oops

[clugo]

Brummie, i'm trying build somthg very similar. I have a couple of questions, if you dont mind.
1. You're not using any air stones right?
2. How much of mess does this setup make in the rest of your sump? I'm building one that would go in the chamber as my skimmer.
3. Where did you get your leds from? Do you think a couple of 20w/2700K CFLs would work as well?
4. As for flow, I was thinking of pointing a maxijet 600 underneath it for additional flow. What do you think?

The flow in the center is a calm 600 gallons per hr or so, but its not chaotic.

[biglurr54]

I have an idea to run up the flag pole.

My thought is to build an up flow hong on glass scrubber for a 26 gallon that will go in the sump. . I will build a 4x6 acrylic box and glue crushed coral to the back wall and sides. I will make a baffle system that will house a small power head that will have an air line attached to it. The power head will blow water and bubbles and the baffles will direct the flow and bubbles up the back wall. Light will be provided by 4 Leds running at 350 ma.

Criticize, modify, and advise this plan!

[Floyd R Turbo]

My UAS test unit that I started back in April of last year grows algae just fine with hardly any air bubbles. The bubble bar that I use (rigid tubing with holes poked in it) clogs up within days and bubbles only come out a few holes, yet the growth is everywhere. My unit sits on top of the tank and water is pumped into it with a Cobalt MJ pump. I question the need for bubbles at all. SM said for years that you couldn't grow algae submerged. Then it was you could but you need bubbles. Supposedly the bigger the bubbles the better, which does actually seem to make sense since the supposed purpose of the bubbles is to create random motion, so a skimmer type pump would not work as it would result in microbubbles. But Brummie's scrubber is a great example that no bubbles are needed, only light and water motion. I don't know if a vertical UAS would work w/o bubbles but I would think that flow trumps bubbles. That has always been my beef with the UAS, bubbles just don't create enough water exchange to equal a waterfall scrubber.

Addtionally, I have seen people put a vertical screen in a high flow chamber and get growth. Not enough data to draw any solid conclusions on any type of submerged scrubber, IMO

[Brummie]

Originally Posted by clugo

Brummie, i'm trying build somthg very similar. I have a couple of questions, if you dont mind.
1. You're not using any air stones right?
2. How much of mess does this setup make in the rest of your sump? I'm building one that would go in the chamber as my skimmer.
3. Where did you get your leds from? Do you think a couple of 20w/2700K CFLs would work as well?
4. As for flow, I was thinking of pointing a maxijet 600 underneath it for additional flow. What do you think?

The flow in the center is a calm 600 gallons per hr or so, but its not chaotic.

1. Correct, no bubbles
2. It is the ONLY thing in my sump (apart from a bit of old live rock)
3. CFLs do work (I used them on the prototype), but not as well as LEDs. Mine are cheap Chinese growlights.
4. If you can get random algae or wave type pulse movement, the mechanism is upto you. My pump just faces straight up to the surface from the bottom of the tank.

[biglurr54]

Maybe find a zoo med power sweep. That will give rhythmic waves. If you clean it monthly you will have no issues.

[_shorty_]

Brummie, have you noticed the alk consumption inherent to waterfall style scrubber since you are not providing air bubbles or allowing it to touch the air like a dump style (aka allowing direct contact with co2)?

[Brummie]

Originally Posted by _shorty_

Brummie, have you noticed the alk consumption inherent to waterfall style scrubber since you are not providing air bubbles or allowing it to touch the air like a dump style (aka allowing direct contact with co2)?

No ALK consumption. I've put this down to the fact that co2 gets liberated from the display, goes down the overflow pipe, sits on the sump, and then is reintroduced to the water flow by the wave "cascade" I've got going on, which produces the wave type pattern flow. May be total gobbledygook though, just fits my observations and research. either way, mine is not using a disproportionate amount of ALK to cal and pH sits at about 8.2.

[Brummie]

I've also got a bubble lamp - copepod filter growing. That's 3 submerged screens out of 3, fancy that;

[_shorty_]

Originally Posted by Brummie

I've also got a bubble lamp - copepod filter growing. That's 3 submerged screens out of 3, fancy that;

[Devaji108]

Originally Posted by biglurr54

I have an idea to run up the flag pole.

My thought is to build an up flow hong on glass scrubber for a 26 gallon that will go in the sump. . I will build a 4x6 acrylic box and glue crushed coral to the back wall and sides. I will make a baffle system that will house a small power head that will have an air line attached to it. The power head will blow water and bubbles and the baffles will direct the flow and bubbles up the back wall. Light will be provided by 4 Leds running at 350 ma.

Criticize, modify, and advise this plan!

I am also making a HOG style up flow ATS I also thought about CC but SM suggested crushed quarts....

[Devaji108]

let me ask you ppl with experience with ATS some questions.
I am in the process of a 40br set up that will focus on LPS softies, sponges and Non photo. corals...

so my questions are:

anything i need to know about cycling the tank with ATS?

not sure if I should go with a 1/2 cube or full cube ATS? I do need some "goodies in the water so I am thinking the 1/2 cube would be good along with H2O changes when needed. thoughts?

if I do go with a 1/2 cube and need to upgrade anyone just glued more screen on the the already in use screen to make it bigger?

what is the best way to treat magnets that will be exposed to the water? epoxy silicone or some thing else?

[herring_fish]

Why quarts?

[Floyd R Turbo]

I would go with the larger screen, you can change the photoperiod to adjust. IMO the cube rating isn't as accurate for upflow scrubbers. Go with double the size that you think you need.

As far as cycling a tank with a scrubber, if you mean starting a new tank with a new scrubber that has no growth, you might as well be cycling your tank like normal. If you have an existing/mature/cured scrubber and you put it on a new tank, then there will be no urea but there will probably be an ammonia and nitrite spike, which will be somewhat muted if not undetectable, but that wholly depends on the setup.

Regarding the cycle though, it still does happen even if you don't 'see' it. the bacterial process still needs to happen, and there is no shortcut to this process.

I have found that this is one of the best guidelines to follow for a new tank setup:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/

Go to #15

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by herring_fish

Why quarts?

Supposedly quartz is rougher, but I don't know why that is. Maybe that's what his green grabber stuff is and he's dropping a hint. Quartz is crystalline, so under a microscope I would think it would be smooth. Sharp, yes, but just in the manner that it is pointy.

I would think that aragonite would work fine, or maybe Marco Rocks Mortar spread out and then poked at with your finger to make a bunch of stalagtite-like structures for algae to bond to.