white particles in water

cazzy · 12/25/2007, 08:52 PM

Alright I'm getting very irritated with this. I have white particles flowing through my tank like crazy. It's so bad it makes the water look really cloudy. I have a 75g with 2 modded mj1200's (too much display flow?), a ~20g sump w/ a q1 3000 pump turned down to about half flow. I have a coralife skimmer that is on my sump. I have about 80lbs of sand and 100lbs of rock. Tank has 2 clowns, 2 damsels, some snails and some crabs. I need some advice. I don't know what the heck is wrong and I'm getting frustrated with it. The tank is ~3.5 months old. Help!

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html
This is basically my sump. My overflow splits and I have slow flow going into my refugium and the remainder going into the intake section obviously. The skimmer hangs on the left side of it and cycles back into the intake section. Both the skimmer return tube and my overflow drain go into a filter bag that is cleaned regularly.

intermision · 12/25/2007, 09:04 PM

Are you dosing calcium?

cazzy · 12/25/2007, 09:08 PM

No.

schigara · 12/25/2007, 09:35 PM

Are there and tiny bubbles entering the return pump from the sump? Ofcourse, this would be easy to tell as would would see the microbubbles coming out from the return pipes.

My problem was due to the return pump sittin to close to the refugium and would ingest bubbles caused by the water coming from the refugium. I moved the pump away from the fuge wall and no more microbubbles.

Now I have white specs and cloudiness due to an explosion of copepods. They are everywhere and when they crawl onto the Koralia powerheads, they eventually get blown into the water column.

cazzy · 12/25/2007, 09:39 PM

I do have some microbubbles, but they aren't too bad... This really appears to be like sand particles or something... I don't have anything that is stirring up the sand unless the 2 modded mj's is just too much for my tank and I can't see it?

schigara · 12/25/2007, 09:49 PM

Could be a cloud of copepods like are in my tank. Do you see the little white bugs all over the rocks and glass? Look at the powerheads. Do you see any pods?

cazzy · 12/25/2007, 10:06 PM

No... Not seeing any pods that I can tell. If thats what it is then they're too small for me to even make out what it is. It looks like a speck of dust. Can there really be so many in a tank that it clouds the water? (if that were the case)

schigara · 12/25/2007, 10:09 PM

No, not really I guess. Maybe a bacterial bloom?

cazzy · 12/25/2007, 10:11 PM

I don't know... I almost want to get a different sump because of this. I just feel like it may be sump related. Atleast the microbubble issues that I have/have had are sump related. I just don't know what I would swap to if I did...

cazzy · 12/25/2007, 11:08 PM

Any more advice/opinions? Or if I were to get a new sump, where to go/what route to take? I wouldn't want to build something myself either...

geiges · 12/26/2007, 01:55 AM

Now I have white specs and cloudiness due to an explosion of copepods. They are everywhere and when they crawl onto the Koralia powerheads, they eventually get blown into the water column.

How do you fix this?
I have this problem to!

ch0daboy · 12/26/2007, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geiges
Now I have white specs and cloudiness due to an explosion of copepods. They are everywhere and when they crawl onto the Koralia powerheads, they eventually get blown into the water column.

How do you fix this?
I have this problem to!

This is a good thing no need to fix.

I had a similiar "white spot" issue becuase of overdosing calc causing percipitate in the water. It went down when parameters went down. Now my options for crystal clear water lie in running carbon and ozone which i will probably take up at some point.

m2434 · 12/26/2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cazzy
Any more advice/opinions? Or if I were to get a new sump, where to go/what route to take? I wouldn't want to build something myself either...

It sounds like sand, detritus or microbubbles being blown around... Due to the baffles on the sump I would doubt it's microbubbles. However, sometimes my skimmer goes crazy and dumps tons of microbubbles into the tank and the baffles do nothing.... They're so small, they don't look like microbubbles, the water just looks cloudy and it took me a while to figure out what was going on. I turned off the skimmer and it took 5-10 minutes for the water to clear, there were so many!

If it's not your skimmer, you might check all your pumps. The other possibility is a damaged pump. If a pump has a scratch or chip on the impeller, it can cavitate and create tons of bubbles. If that's not it, it sounds like sand or detritus and there is too much flow somewhere. It doesn't mean there is too much flow in the tank, just in some area. It could be bouncing off the glass and traveling down to the sand etc... Of course, if you want a new sump, I won't tell your significant other

cazzy · 12/26/2007, 08:48 AM

Well... I have my powerheads like this in the tank:

_____________________________
| \ \ |
| |
|_____________________________|

the one on the left shoots a little farther over, the one on the right aims at an angle at the glass. Should I try turning EVERYTHING off and leaving it off for an hour or two and see where I'm at? I know my skimmer was dumping microbubbles in, but they were getting filtered out with my sump. I turned it off for the last day just to see where I'm at nonetheless. The microbubbles that are in the tank, don't have a chance to get to the surface because of all the flow. I think I'm going to cut down to one powerhead after I see how things settle after turning it all off. Any further opinions?

cazzy · 12/26/2007, 08:50 AM

well crap... that wasn't how it was supposed to come out...
._______________________________
|..\\...................................\\....................|
|..............................................................|
|_______________________________|

cazzy · 12/26/2007, 08:50 AM

I give up, but you get the picture. I am going to switch to one shooting end to end, parallel with the front glass.

m2434 · 12/26/2007, 01:31 PM

I'd try turning the pumps off, one at a time, for a half hour to an hour and see what happens and go from there. Let us know what happens.

Best of luck

mnestroy · 12/26/2007, 01:56 PM

I have the same problem. I've been searching for a solution for a years now

Start by turning off pumps, even though you have a 75g tank, once u add rocks, sand etc you'r water volume will be much less. So consider that when you figure out your total flow.... Cut all your powerheads for a few hrs and see what happends.

Then turn off your sumps return pump, and then your skimmer... turn off each one seperatly.

If you not using a filter sock on your sump try that too.

I have never found the solution to this problem, it has drove me crazy for 2yrs now, i've even bought a $140 vortex diaton filter that is suppose to filter the smallest particals out of the water.. I've tried using it for several days and saw very little results.

One last thing is to make sure your not over feeding. Any uneaten food will be blown around.

If your getting microbubbles out of your sumps return pump then most likely its to powerful or your bubble traps are designed correctly. You want very slow movement in your sump 5x turnover... no reason to have much higher.

asonitez · 12/26/2007, 02:10 PM

mnestroy does your diatom filter throw a lot of micro bubbles into your tank? I'm trying to stop mine from doing that and having a tough time.

JaredWaites · 12/26/2007, 02:10 PM

I have another thought, although it sounds odd, it does indeed happen in captive environments.

Any corals or clams in the tank?

Could be a spawn. Sometimes clams release gametes to spawn in captivity. Gamete's are basically sperm and egg. If one triggers and releases sperm, the other clam releases an ovum.

That or well...I don't know. Check your water parameters.

ShadyDetective · 12/26/2007, 02:21 PM

My money is on detritus being suspended in the water column due to the increased flow from the MJ Mods. Had the same issue when I added a GS2 to my 56 Gallon. Simple solutrion, stick a sponge between sump baffles for a few days until it clears up. I clean the sponge once or twice a day and within three days crystal clear water, very slight increase in nitrates, but that goes away pretty fast. I don't do it often because you are stealing food from filter feeders and pods can't make it all the way around the sump display loop. Hope this helps.

syrinx · 12/26/2007, 03:37 PM

I see a lot more of this in the winter time when people start up the furnace and start blowing dust around the house. the lower humidity of wontertime also makes dust more airborn. I am puzzled that the diatom wouldn`t clear this eventually though. I have one tank with a billion shrimp and coe/amphi`s and it is constantly stirred with detritus from that- but a filter pulls it out.

mnestroy · 12/26/2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by asonitez
mnestroy does your diatom filter throw a lot of micro bubbles into your tank? I'm trying to stop mine from doing that and having a tough time.

Yes and drives me crazy, Since I dont use it very often cause its such a pain to load/prime I haven't researched it.

But yes the dang thing blast tons of bubbles into tank, cant figure out where the bubbles are comming from, unless the motor is designed to inject air..

cazzy · 12/27/2007, 08:52 AM

UPDATE! So, yesterday, I turned my return pump down a little lower and cut down to 1 modded mj. The microbubble issue is gone now but there were still white specks in the water. This morning, I wake up and check the tank to find TONS of white specks on the GLASS.... This is obviously a pod outbreak... They look like tiny white little bugs that scurry on the glass or whatever they are on. There's still a ton of them floating around the tank, but atleast I know what they are. Is this something that will go away? I know they're good but it looks absolutely horrible... lol.

mnestroy · 12/27/2007, 11:01 AM

Do you have any fish that eat pods? Like a Six Line, or a Mandarin Goby?

If not you should look into this type of fish, it will keep things in check.

12/25/2007, 08:52 PM	#1
cazzy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Casper, WY Posts: 210	white particles in water Alright I'm getting very irritated with this. I have white particles flowing through my tank like crazy. It's so bad it makes the water look really cloudy. I have a 75g with 2 modded mj1200's (too much display flow?), a ~20g sump w/ a q1 3000 pump turned down to about half flow. I have a coralife skimmer that is on my sump. I have about 80lbs of sand and 100lbs of rock. Tank has 2 clowns, 2 damsels, some snails and some crabs. I need some advice. I don't know what the heck is wrong and I'm getting frustrated with it. The tank is ~3.5 months old. Help! http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html This is basically my sump. My overflow splits and I have slow flow going into my refugium and the remainder going into the intake section obviously. The skimmer hangs on the left side of it and cycles back into the intake section. Both the skimmer return tube and my overflow drain go into a filter bag that is cleaned regularly.

12/26/2007, 01:31 PM	#17
m2434 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,171	I'd try turning the pumps off, one at a time, for a half hour to an hour and see what happens and go from there. Let us know what happens. Best of luck __________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. ~Richard Feynman

12/26/2007, 03:37 PM	#22
syrinx Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: champaign Posts: 3,160	I see a lot more of this in the winter time when people start up the furnace and start blowing dust around the house. the lower humidity of wontertime also makes dust more airborn. I am puzzled that the diatom wouldn`t clear this eventually though. I have one tank with a billion shrimp and coe/amphi`s and it is constantly stirred with detritus from that- but a filter pulls it out. __________________ My views are based on 49years as an aquarist, 25 years as a pro reef consultant, 10 years of owning a LFS, and the results of thousands of customers tanks. But I am always learning.

12/25/2007, 09:04 PM	#2
intermision Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 190	Are you dosing calcium?

12/25/2007, 09:08 PM	#3
cazzy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Casper, WY Posts: 210	No.

12/25/2007, 09:35 PM	#4
schigara Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Memphis, Tn Posts: 525	Are there and tiny bubbles entering the return pump from the sump? Ofcourse, this would be easy to tell as would would see the microbubbles coming out from the return pipes. My problem was due to the return pump sittin to close to the refugium and would ingest bubbles caused by the water coming from the refugium. I moved the pump away from the fuge wall and no more microbubbles. Now I have white specs and cloudiness due to an explosion of copepods. They are everywhere and when they crawl onto the Koralia powerheads, they eventually get blown into the water column.

12/25/2007, 09:39 PM	#5
cazzy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Casper, WY Posts: 210	I do have some microbubbles, but they aren't too bad... This really appears to be like sand particles or something... I don't have anything that is stirring up the sand unless the 2 modded mj's is just too much for my tank and I can't see it?

12/25/2007, 09:49 PM	#6
schigara Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Memphis, Tn Posts: 525	Could be a cloud of copepods like are in my tank. Do you see the little white bugs all over the rocks and glass? Look at the powerheads. Do you see any pods?

12/25/2007, 10:06 PM	#7
cazzy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Casper, WY Posts: 210	No... Not seeing any pods that I can tell. If thats what it is then they're too small for me to even make out what it is. It looks like a speck of dust. Can there really be so many in a tank that it clouds the water? (if that were the case)

12/25/2007, 10:09 PM	#8
schigara Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Memphis, Tn Posts: 525	No, not really I guess. Maybe a bacterial bloom?

12/25/2007, 10:11 PM	#9
cazzy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Casper, WY Posts: 210	I don't know... I almost want to get a different sump because of this. I just feel like it may be sump related. Atleast the microbubble issues that I have/have had are sump related. I just don't know what I would swap to if I did...

12/25/2007, 11:08 PM	#10
cazzy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Casper, WY Posts: 210	Any more advice/opinions? Or if I were to get a new sump, where to go/what route to take? I wouldn't want to build something myself either...

12/26/2007, 01:55 AM	#11
geiges Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: lancaster PA. Posts: 80	Now I have white specs and cloudiness due to an explosion of copepods. They are everywhere and when they crawl onto the Koralia powerheads, they eventually get blown into the water column. How do you fix this? I have this problem to!

12/26/2007, 08:48 AM	#14
cazzy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Casper, WY Posts: 210	Well... I have my powerheads like this in the tank: _____________________________ \| \ \ \| \| \| \|_____________________________\| the one on the left shoots a little farther over, the one on the right aims at an angle at the glass. Should I try turning EVERYTHING off and leaving it off for an hour or two and see where I'm at? I know my skimmer was dumping microbubbles in, but they were getting filtered out with my sump. I turned it off for the last day just to see where I'm at nonetheless. The microbubbles that are in the tank, don't have a chance to get to the surface because of all the flow. I think I'm going to cut down to one powerhead after I see how things settle after turning it all off. Any further opinions?

12/26/2007, 08:50 AM	#15
cazzy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Casper, WY Posts: 210	well crap... that wasn't how it was supposed to come out... ._______________________________ \|..\\...................................\\....................\| \|..............................................................\| \|_______________________________\|

12/26/2007, 01:56 PM	#18
mnestroy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 2,216	I have the same problem. I've been searching for a solution for a years now Start by turning off pumps, even though you have a 75g tank, once u add rocks, sand etc you'r water volume will be much less. So consider that when you figure out your total flow.... Cut all your powerheads for a few hrs and see what happends. Then turn off your sumps return pump, and then your skimmer... turn off each one seperatly. If you not using a filter sock on your sump try that too. I have never found the solution to this problem, it has drove me crazy for 2yrs now, i've even bought a $140 vortex diaton filter that is suppose to filter the smallest particals out of the water.. I've tried using it for several days and saw very little results. One last thing is to make sure your not over feeding. Any uneaten food will be blown around. If your getting microbubbles out of your sumps return pump then most likely its to powerful or your bubble traps are designed correctly. You want very slow movement in your sump 5x turnover... no reason to have much higher.

12/26/2007, 02:10 PM	#19
asonitez Floodicus Maximus Flooris Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,643	mnestroy does your diatom filter throw a lot of micro bubbles into your tank? I'm trying to stop mine from doing that and having a tough time.

12/26/2007, 02:10 PM	#20
JaredWaites Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Destin, FL Posts: 1,482	I have another thought, although it sounds odd, it does indeed happen in captive environments. Any corals or clams in the tank? Could be a spawn. Sometimes clams release gametes to spawn in captivity. Gamete's are basically sperm and egg. If one triggers and releases sperm, the other clam releases an ovum. That or well...I don't know. Check your water parameters.

12/26/2007, 02:21 PM	#21
ShadyDetective Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 305 Posts: 29	My money is on detritus being suspended in the water column due to the increased flow from the MJ Mods. Had the same issue when I added a GS2 to my 56 Gallon. Simple solutrion, stick a sponge between sump baffles for a few days until it clears up. I clean the sponge once or twice a day and within three days crystal clear water, very slight increase in nitrates, but that goes away pretty fast. I don't do it often because you are stealing food from filter feeders and pods can't make it all the way around the sump display loop. Hope this helps.

12/27/2007, 08:52 AM	#24
cazzy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Casper, WY Posts: 210	UPDATE! So, yesterday, I turned my return pump down a little lower and cut down to 1 modded mj. The microbubble issue is gone now but there were still white specks in the water. This morning, I wake up and check the tank to find TONS of white specks on the GLASS.... This is obviously a pod outbreak... They look like tiny white little bugs that scurry on the glass or whatever they are on. There's still a ton of them floating around the tank, but atleast I know what they are. Is this something that will go away? I know they're good but it looks absolutely horrible... lol.

12/27/2007, 11:01 AM	#25
mnestroy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 2,216	Do you have any fish that eat pods? Like a Six Line, or a Mandarin Goby? If not you should look into this type of fish, it will keep things in check.