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Old 05/21/2010, 05:41 AM   #1
bigreentractor
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Fish to avoid with Zoas

So my original plan for my new 180 was to have a FOWLR but after seeing some of the cool Zoas at my LFS I think I may have to get some...

Just wanted to know for my stocking list are there are fish or families of fish I should stay away from due to compatibility issues?

TIA


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Old 05/21/2010, 06:18 AM   #2
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With zoas your going to want to follow the same rules that apply to any "reef safe" fish with the exception that you might be willing to break the rules a bit because, well its only zoas. What classifies a fish as not reef safe is the fact that it will eat polyps which is what zoas are. A lot of angels, butterflyfish and well just a ton of fish in general are going to chow down on your zoas. To be honest, unless you were going to go with a full reef with a variety of corals I would probably just stick to FOWLR. The variety of fish you can keep in a fish only tank is pretty cool, with a reef your more limited, but then again you get to enjoy the beauty of the coral so its a trade off.


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Old 05/21/2010, 06:29 AM   #3
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=/ that wasn't what I wanted to hear lol but thank you! I guess maybe I will need another tank to have everything I want... or maybe I can find enough other corals that interest me to fill out the 180 and save the triggers and angels for another lifetime


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Old 05/21/2010, 10:39 AM   #4
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you can put a lot of zoas in a 180 nice cant wait to see it full


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Old 05/21/2010, 12:20 PM   #5
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Angels, Tangs ( exception of yellows ), fox faces.


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Old 05/21/2010, 01:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 650-IS350 View Post
Angels, Tangs ( exception of yellows ), fox faces.
i dont totally agree with this if its "fish to avoid"....ive had and still have tangs with my reef. ive kole tangs,powder brown,regal,yellows,scopas tangs and ive had 2 different species foxfaces and currently house a coral beauty angel which ive had for 2 years.

and everyone i know has some form of tang in their reef tanks.

granted angels are a RISK in a reef but i and a friend have had no issues out of either of our coral beatuies. neither foxface i had gave any issues and one is now housed in a friends 180g reef with a scopas tang, sailfin tang and a regal and NO ISSUES....

alot of fish ive noticed people say dont use are a CHOICE....maybe because theyve had a bad experience or heard some say they have....

ive been doing this 3 years and NEVER had a tang munch on anything it wasnt supposed to and ive ALWAYS had zoa gardens....

any fish that says WITH CAUTION on its reef compatibly is a risk to house with certain corals. and ALOT of angels are NOT reef safe.

just do your research on fish BEFORE you buy them and ask around for someone that has had or may have a perticular fish your interested in and get some first hand info.


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Old 05/21/2010, 10:36 PM   #7
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i have been told stories of tangs that eat coral.all the tangs i have had never ate any.i had a flame angel that would chomp on coral all the time.had to break down the tank to get him out.why would yellows be different from purples or blacks.arent they the same kind of tang?


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Old 05/22/2010, 04:02 AM   #8
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Copper Banded Butterfly fish, at least the one I tried, ate my Purple Hornets


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Old 05/22/2010, 04:23 PM   #9
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i have been told stories of tangs that eat coral.all the tangs i have had never ate any.i had a flame angel that would chomp on coral all the time.had to break down the tank to get him out.why would yellows be different from purples or blacks.arent they the same kind of tang?
tangs sometimes get around the zoa's to eat the filiamented algae but i rarely see them kill the corals unless its getting really stressed out to the point it just dies.


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Old 05/22/2010, 05:00 PM   #10
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I had a bi-color angel with my zoas and other corals. Only picked at the zoa colonies when first added after that never touched them again. Never bothered my euphyllia corals at all. Does'nt mean that one day it wouldn't go crazy and go to town on my corals though. Except that he died . Did great for 2 months and one day he just stopped eating, just like you hear with these angels. I thought I got lucky after the 2 month point he was such a pig.


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Old 05/23/2010, 09:33 AM   #11
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I've had several tangs that were model citizens for years with my zoanthids only to suddenly have them turn into zoanthid eaters. I don't mean just picking at them, I mean tearing into and actually eating whole 100 + polyp colonies untill every polyp is gone.
I say it's 50/50 odds with them.


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Old 05/23/2010, 01:20 PM   #12
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My purple tang enjoys the zoa frags if they are stressed in shipment. It took a while to find out the fate of several precious frags


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Old 05/25/2010, 03:05 PM   #13
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foxfaces and other fish...

just wanted to share a recent experience:
I had a fox face for about 2 years, about 6 months ago i had to leave home for a few month period. I was able to come back after the first month for the weekend, only to find out that the foxy had developed a taste for my polyps it ate about 4-5k$ worth of them, destroying most of my valued colonies.

Once the colony and/or polyps were damaged, my tangs also took bites at them. I have 4 yellow and a purple tang.

I was able to use a trap to catch the foxface, but the damage was done :.(
However since then, the tangs are on a no-zoa-diet.

I also have a flame angel and a coral beauty that haven't touched any corals - knock on wood.


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Old 05/25/2010, 03:50 PM   #14
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Just because your or your friends or people you know has never happened to them doesn't mean it doesn't occur or won't occur. The OP said fish to avoid with polyps. The fish I mentioned have been known or reports of occurrence of these fish all the sudden turning on these corals and popping them up like popcorn. Be my guest and keep these fish in your tanks... chances are they don't do anything but there's also a chance they can develop a taste for them while sampling algae around the frags and colonies and happen to like the taste.

I rather keep my $$$$$$$$$$$ worth of polyps than have a $35 dollar fish mow them down.

this is one of the rare vids were it's actually caught in the act.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nxLwTiCd_k


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Old 05/25/2010, 04:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 650-IS350 View Post
Angels, Tangs ( exception of yellows ), fox faces.
I would agree with this - I think anytime you put any type of Angel or a Tang (including the yellow tang) in a tank, its a risk (people may post up that theirs have always been model citizens, but for everyone of those, you can find a post from someone else about Coral Beauties or Flame Angels or whatever consuming polyps. Recent DNA research indicates that Yellow and Scopas tangs may indeed be the same species; if thats true, if one is a risk, obviously so is the other. I've seen various tangs, including a large Yellow tang and a Scopas tang consume polyps, so again, I think you're taking a risk any time you introduce any of these into your reef tank. The question becomes do you really want to risk all the $$ you've spent on coral for the sake of a fish - and when you're fishing the tank with a hook or a spear trying to get that fish out without tearing the whole tank apart after it's eaten all those $$ in corals, will it really have been worth it then?


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Old 05/25/2010, 06:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J.'s reef View Post
i dont totally agree with this if its "fish to avoid"....ive had and still have tangs with my reef. ive kole tangs,powder brown,regal,yellows,scopas tangs and ive had 2 different species foxfaces and currently house a coral beauty angel which ive had for 2 years.

and everyone i know has some form of tang in their reef tanks.

granted angels are a RISK in a reef but i and a friend have had no issues out of either of our coral beatuies. neither foxface i had gave any issues and one is now housed in a friends 180g reef with a scopas tang, sailfin tang and a regal and NO ISSUES....

alot of fish ive noticed people say dont use are a CHOICE....maybe because theyve had a bad experience or heard some say they have....

ive been doing this 3 years and NEVER had a tang munch on anything it wasnt supposed to and ive ALWAYS had zoa gardens....

any fish that says WITH CAUTION on its reef compatibly is a risk to house with certain corals. and ALOT of angels are NOT reef safe.

just do your research on fish BEFORE you buy them and ask around for someone that has had or may have a perticular fish your interested in and get some first hand info.

650 is 100% correct. In fact, I don't believe that ANY TANG is safe with Zoanthids. Yep, true that and I'll stand behind it till the day my tank freezes over. I wish I can find the link, but I'm not on my own PC, but there are entire reefing communities overseas who won't go near a Tang if they have polyps. You may have Tangs who are co existing with zoas and swim right by them for days, months and years, but they are not 100% reliable to remain that way. I have personally, I mean in my own tank years ago, watched in horror as a Hippo ( Blue Tang ), and even a supposed reef safe Kole Tang mow down a rock one polyp at a time. I had a nice 3 inch Yellow Tang who was a perfect tankmate for years, but one day he swam by and looked at my red zoas and snapped one off.


I too know alot of reefers, some who have some of the most stunning tanks out there, and yes, they have Tangs, but I would never ever trust putting one in a tank full of zoas especially with what's being charged for those polyps today. I agree also that angels and foxfaces are a big mistake.

Check out this link.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...d.php?t=931106


Just my 2 cents and no one has to except it.


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Old 05/25/2010, 08:43 PM   #17
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Dug deep for that one Mucho.....

Good info


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Old 05/25/2010, 10:04 PM   #18
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OMG, Moooch... that's some back in the day stuff there buddy.

for those who don't want to believe that tangs can mow down polyps in no time, be it.... I just don't want to be the one that looses $$$$ in rare polyps or hard to get pieces for a fish that cost's $15 at the least.

I will do say that I have a 1 1/2" baby yellow tang that I'm temporarily employing in my tank at the moment for some minimal algae removal. I don't like any algae in my tank. But I " DO " watch this tiny guy religiously, supplement his diet with a mix of mysis, brine, pellets, cyclopeeze and nori flakes. I did go with the yellow tang as in my own opinion, these guys are the most vegitarian of them tangs and least likely to commit atrocities to my collection of Z's and P's. Any time I see him grazing algae off my frag disks I check to see what he's really grazing on to see if there were any bite marks on the polyps to give me fair warning of whats to come and prepare me to take him out. Am I taking a risk, yes a very calculated one. I do have tons of high priced z's and p's for example the hornet collections, VDM's, nightmares, collection of DWZ's etc... as examples of what I can loose if my gamble is incorrect.


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Old 05/26/2010, 05:38 AM   #19
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anyone try a trigger fish???i have seen some in peoples reef tanks and i know they eat shrimp but will they pick at coral?


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Old 05/26/2010, 05:40 AM   #20
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LOL, there were a bunch I found in a search I did, this was one of the old ones. Just wanted to show how long the debate has gone on over Surgeons and polyps.

You must be some gambler, LOL. I don't trust any of them and I have own several of them. I'm glad you are feeding them too. Good luck my friend.


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Old 05/26/2010, 09:11 AM   #21
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about triggers,

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/tri...igfam.htm#diet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triggerfish
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-08/dc/index.php


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Old 05/26/2010, 10:47 AM   #22
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I made the mistake of adding a rabbit fish (Siganus corallinus) to the tank..in a months time i started to see zoanthids go missing in chunks. I watched the tank and saw the regal tang that was a model citizen for 2-3 years munching on my gems...i planned to give him a chance since i had it from tiny...thats when i spotted the rabbit fish mowing down some pink zoas...so i decided to lose the rabbitfish. I came back from work and while making a trap i saw the sailfin ripping apart a colony...i thought maybe i wasnt feeding enough...but these fish were all fatties...so i fed nori daily and they ate that and then went about to munching down the zoas...I eventually got the regal and the rabbitfish out after some serious effort to trap the regal...the sailfin stopped nipping but if he finds a colony not doing good he'll munch on it. If i seem him pick on a healthy colony he's going too...


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Old 05/26/2010, 01:52 PM   #23
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lbaldrey, good stuff you shared. Thanks mate.


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Old 05/26/2010, 02:19 PM   #24
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i have only 2 fish in my reef tank.6 line and a lawnmower blenny.both do a good job and mess with my coral.i did loose a coral last week.it was a single poylp frag and one of the hermits must have nocked it off the glue.oh well


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Old 05/27/2010, 12:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUCHO REEF View Post
lbaldrey, good stuff you shared. Thanks mate.
Thanks mucho...on a side note..some years ago your TOTM(and Archie Luz tank) got me addicted to zoanthid tanks and my reef has been Zoa dominated since


Something I wanted to add but forgot...If theres a fish eating coral, get them out immediately...the other fish seem to learn / pick up the bad habit really fast.

The only fish Ive had that never bothered anything were Flame & Flasher wrasses, Banggai's, Yellow watchman goby's and Anthias...none of them are "grazer's"


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