Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 06/16/2015, 11:29 AM   #1
biom
Registered Member
 
biom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Belene, BG
Posts: 111
KZ Coral Snow = Chalk?

I was wondering what KZ Coral Snow is made of. It seems that it is pure natural chalk and water. I've made few simple tests and I'm pretty sure that it is chalk - it vigorously dissolves in acetic acid without residue, and after dehydration it looks exactly like chalk. I have natural chalk in hand and it is hard to find difference when compare with dehydrated Coral Snow. You can judge by yourself - on the picture attached - left is natural chalk and right is dehydrated Coral Snow, the stone is chalk.
Since chalk is almost pure calcite - Calcium carbonate with traces of Magnesium carbonate, silicates, ferric oxides,inorganic phosphates etc, I decide to give a try to pure calcium carbonate (analytical grade) instead Coral Snow - and it works like charm - it has the same effect, and I'm sure that there is no unwanted impurities like phosphates, silicates and ferric salts. The pure calcium carbonate is bright white, while chalk and Coral Snow have yellowish color, because of other salts.
I really like Coral snow because is helps a lot especially when new corals are added into the tank - the chalk reduces the mucus secretion from one side and coagulate organic compounds make them easily removed by skimmer or consumed by bacteria.
There are about 4 grams chalk in 10 ml of CoralSnow.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg chalk.jpg (84.1 KB, 440 views)
biom is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/16/2015, 11:55 AM   #2
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
Calcium carbonate particles might make a good flocculant, as you suggest. I hadn't thought of that application. So does it seem to make the water a bit clearer on average, or do you see effects only when adding new corals?


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/16/2015, 12:20 PM   #3
biom
Registered Member
 
biom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Belene, BG
Posts: 111
Yes, it has similar effect on water transparency like activated carbon. Especially if there are yellowing agents in the water. But if you are using activated carbon, there will be no visible effect of course. After addition, water becomes milky but in few hours cloudiness disappear. I'm dosing weekly or biweekly.


biom is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/16/2015, 12:34 PM   #4
Mock
Saltwater Junkie
 
Mock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sherwood, AR
Posts: 669
Your OP kinda has me scratching my head though.

You said you used pure calcium carbonate (analytical grade) for your test and it worked like a charm.

Yet in the next sentence you mention just plain chalk and the color differences of it and the pure CC, as well as the Coral Snow.

Is it safe to assume you still havent used just a plain box of chalk and ran studies enough to come to a conclusion that it is safe to crush it and add it to the tank with no repercussions? What kind, brand, or anything else? Control, for testing and such?


__________________
250g In-Wall, 75g fuge, 40g sump, 20g frag tank, Aqua Euro PS-400, RK Elite, 2x400w 14k Halides, 2 MP40s, MRC-6
Mock is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/16/2015, 01:07 PM   #5
biom
Registered Member
 
biom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Belene, BG
Posts: 111
No, I'm not that brave to start testing chalk in my tank. As I mention chalk is natural rock and could have various impurities. The chalk on the picture is from quarry near by.
I don't think using chalk with unknown ingredients is good idea, because there are for sure phosphates, silicates and ferric oxides with unknown concentration in it. Probably the guys from KZ are made their home work and found a quarry with chalk of good quality with low phosphates and silicates. But still in my experience I found that frequent usage of CoralSnow causes diatom and green algae bloom on stones and glass, that's why I decide to switch to pure CC, so far so good.


biom is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/16/2015, 01:18 PM   #6
jedimasterben
LED world domination!
 
jedimasterben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Okeechobee, FL
Posts: 1,030
So, where is a good source of pure CaCO3?


__________________
Dinoflagellates are the kiss of death.

Current Tank Info: Acquasole 60, IceCap 15 Sump, 2x Maxspect Ethereal, Coral Box D500 skimmer, Maxspect Gyre 150, Jecod DCS-5000
jedimasterben is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/16/2015, 01:26 PM   #7
MetroKat
Registered Member
 
MetroKat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimasterben View Post
so, where is a good source of pure caco3?
+1


MetroKat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/16/2015, 01:32 PM   #8
biom
Registered Member
 
biom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Belene, BG
Posts: 111
Hmm good question, I have it from my laboratory suppliers, I don't know how obtaining of analytical grade reagents is arranged in the US.


biom is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/16/2015, 10:07 PM   #9
Reefvet
Registered Member
 
Reefvet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by biom View Post
I was wondering what KZ Coral Snow is made of. ...
It's clay.


__________________
"Skepticism is a method, not a position. It can be defined as a method of intellectual caution and suspended judgment." ~ Rich Ross
Reefvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/17/2015, 02:32 AM   #10
biom
Registered Member
 
biom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Belene, BG
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefvet View Post
It's clay.
Could you please provide some arguments? I don't think it is a clay because the clay is hydrous aluminium phyllosilicate with various alkaline metals. Both aluminium oxides and silicates do not react with acetic acid, but CoralSnow dissolves completely with no residue even in 5% acetic acid, exactly like calcium carbonate.


biom is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/23/2015, 05:32 PM   #11
jedimasterben
LED world domination!
 
jedimasterben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Okeechobee, FL
Posts: 1,030
Just ordered a pound of food grade 97% calcium carbonate powder from Amazon. We'll see how it stacks up. Just wish I hadn't bought this 500mL bottle of the KZ stuff a couple weeks ago lol


__________________
Dinoflagellates are the kiss of death.

Current Tank Info: Acquasole 60, IceCap 15 Sump, 2x Maxspect Ethereal, Coral Box D500 skimmer, Maxspect Gyre 150, Jecod DCS-5000
jedimasterben is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/24/2015, 04:28 AM   #12
biom
Registered Member
 
biom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Belene, BG
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimasterben View Post
Just ordered a pound of food grade 97% calcium carbonate powder from Amazon. We'll see how it stacks up. Just wish I hadn't bought this 500mL bottle of the KZ stuff a couple weeks ago lol
That's good, now you can compare both. Keep us informed.


biom is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/24/2015, 05:43 AM   #13
MetroKat
Registered Member
 
MetroKat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimasterben View Post
Just ordered a pound of food grade 97% calcium carbonate powder from Amazon. We'll see how it stacks up. Just wish I hadn't bought this 500mL bottle of the KZ stuff a couple weeks ago lol
i have 2 bottles. Sigh.


MetroKat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/24/2015, 06:33 AM   #14
downbeach
Registered Member
 
downbeach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Smyrna, Delaware
Posts: 3,767
I used to use it periodically as well. I always thought it looked like/wondered if it was Milk of Magnesia. Observation led me to believe it was beneficial to my system, and I know a few local reefers who I suggested trying it for a cyano problem and it seemed to have a good effect.



Last edited by downbeach; 06/24/2015 at 06:48 AM.
downbeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/24/2015, 07:26 AM   #15
biom
Registered Member
 
biom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Belene, BG
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by downbeach View Post
I used to use it periodically as well. I always thought it looked like/wondered if it was Milk of Magnesia. Observation led me to believe it was beneficial to my system, and I know a few local reefers who I suggested trying it for a cyano problem and it seemed to have a good effect.
Did't compare it with Milk of Magnesia, but since Milk of Magnesia is Magnesium hydroxide with pH 10.35 I don't think this is the case, because I've measured the pH of CoraLSnow and it was 9 something (I have to check).


biom is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/24/2015, 12:57 PM   #16
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by biom View Post
Yes, it has similar effect on water transparency like activated carbon. Especially if there are yellowing agents in the water. But if you are using activated carbon, there will be no visible effect of course. After addition, water becomes milky but in few hours cloudiness disappear. I'm dosing weekly or biweekly.
How much Calcium carbonate are you dosing per liter of aquarium water?


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/24/2015, 02:31 PM   #17
biom
Registered Member
 
biom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Belene, BG
Posts: 111
Just like CoralSnow - circa 1 ml per 100 liters (25 gal) aquarium water. Since there are 3-4 grams calcium carbonate in 10 ml solution, that means about 0.4 grams calcium carbonate per 100 l water.


biom is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06/24/2015, 02:53 PM   #18
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,691
Thanks


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2015, 07:04 AM   #19
jedimasterben
LED world domination!
 
jedimasterben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Okeechobee, FL
Posts: 1,030
New tank is finally up and running and skimmer was broken in finally, so I did my first dose of CaCO3 last night. Pure white powder, I mixed probably 1/8tsp of the stuff into 100mL of water and dosed, it made the water look just like KZ Coral Snow does and this morning the light haze that the tank had was GONE. ****'s the real deal. $8.75 shipped for a pound (around 450ish grams) of 97% food grade CaCO3 powder from Amazon, a helluva deal compared to $120 for 400 grams (1 liter size) of the KZ stuff!


__________________
Dinoflagellates are the kiss of death.

Current Tank Info: Acquasole 60, IceCap 15 Sump, 2x Maxspect Ethereal, Coral Box D500 skimmer, Maxspect Gyre 150, Jecod DCS-5000
jedimasterben is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08/24/2015, 08:25 AM   #20
jason2459
Registered Member
 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
Little bump of history with discussions around coral snow.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2098589


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09/09/2015, 10:04 PM   #21
agv180
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 84
Which CaCO3 powder should I buy?


agv180 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/28/2016, 06:03 AM   #22
aarozsps
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 5
We reefers can make really pure calcium carbonate power by bubbling air through kalkwasser in water, just check the pH and when t goes below around 8-9 ish we know that almost all the hydroxide has reacted with the CO2 in the air.
Can do the same with magnesium hydroxide


aarozsps is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/28/2016, 08:39 AM   #23
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,691
That's an interesting idea for those who choose to use CaCo3 as a flocculant and transporter. Some of my friends use various commercial hobby grade flocculant products and seem to get improved polyp extension from their corals.

While , kalkwasser precipitates CaCO3 ; it also precipitates some impurities ;so the precipitant might not be " really pure calcium carbonate"; the purity of the precipitant depends on the purity of the calcium hydroxide(kalk) used to make the kalkwasser. I think when using the precipitant derived from food grade calcium hydroxide dosed in small amounts the amount of impurities will be very minimal, though.

This article has a good bit of detail:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2003/chem.htm


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

Last edited by tmz; 04/28/2016 at 09:24 AM.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/28/2016, 08:26 PM   #24
jason2459
Registered Member
 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,671
If you removed the fully saturated limewater into another container away from what ever precipitated in the original mixing container then proceed with the above aeration wouldn't that be fairly pure as impurities had mostly already precipitated out into the mixing container ?


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/28/2016, 08:28 PM   #25
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
Yes, if you remove the precipitates, the calcium carbonate that forms on aeration should be pure enough for our purposes.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.