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Tampico96
02/18/2009, 04:42 PM
Did anybody work pvc seloniods into their plc builds?

I'm gathering up parts for a plc build on my new 125. I have a closed loop and had the idea to open and close the outputs on my closed loop. not finding valves that I am 100% sure would be saltwater safe. anybody else deal with this?

ChadTheSpike
08/11/2010, 10:03 AM
I used pvc sprinkler valves for a DIY CL project a few years back. They work well and, IIRC, only have plastic parts in contact with fluid.

Hah... it is that kind of a day... I just responded to an almost two year old post...:sad1:

BeanAnimal
08/22/2010, 06:30 PM
Sprinkler valves are not reef safe, and most require a differential pressure higher than your return pump can provide.

You will not find solenoid valves large enough for your purpose, you will need to source actuated ball valves and they will be very expensive ($300-$2000 each) depending on brand.

You can find JANDY valve actuators for $100 or so that will actuate pool flow control valves, this may be an option.

The BEST choice is to simply purchase an Oceans Motions device or contact Paul at Oceans Motions and see if he has anything custom (Hint... he does) that he can configure to do what you want, but 10 times better!

WarrenG
08/27/2010, 09:19 AM
Oceans Motions, $260-$400. Crazy talk. DIY: 1 Solenoid, 2 magnets, 1 spring, PVC.

BeanAnimal
08/27/2010, 12:36 PM
I would hardly call the Oceans Motions products "crazy talk". They are well designed, reliable and a lot more evolved than a Rube Goldberg DIY solenoid valve.

WarrenG
08/27/2010, 01:50 PM
Bean, Read what I wrote more carefully.

"Crazy talk" immediately followed the prices. I said nothing about the product quality, but cost of materials for what they are selling would be near 10% of the price, and the products would not require an expensive manufacturing process.

BeanAnimal
08/27/2010, 04:29 PM
I did read what you wrote with perfect comprehension and clarity and responded in context. The price of the product matches the build quality and customer support offered by the owner of the company.


As with ANY product, you are paying for:

R&D costs
Tools and production costs
Labor Cost
Insurance cost
Utilities cost (phone water electric)
support costs
Materials costs
shipping costs
etc
Becuase this is a niche product for a niche market, those overhead costs dictate that the per unit cost must be high for the company to be profitable (or even keep its head above water). In this case, the support offered by the owner of the company is unmatched in the hobby (or for that matter just about anywhere). The cratsmanship is top quality and the devices work very well. So the $260-$400 OM is far from crazy and is in fact money well spent.

WarrenG
08/27/2010, 04:57 PM
I have made patentable underwater devices using electronics, solenoids and magnets, and sold them for more than 15 years to hobbyists and professionals around the world, including the US Navy Seals. I am familiar with the costs involved and I think OM's prices are too high for a relatively simple product.

If their price was lower they would sell more units, and still maintain a very reasonable gross profit. Perhaps they are quite satisfied with how many units they are currently selling, or they don't have a good way to make more...?

Very high gross profits invite companies/people to become a competitor. Like it is/was with protein skimmers. I know this well, because twice before I started successful businesses into markets where the "competition" was charging too much.

BeanAnimal
08/27/2010, 06:38 PM
Warren

If you feel that the price of an Oceans Motions is "crazy talk", then don't purchase one. You offered your opinion on the value of the product, in disagreement with my opinion of the value of the product. Each of us seeks value differently based on many criteria. Statements like "Read what I wrote more carefully" are not called for, what you wrote was perfectly clear, as was the response.

Again, each of us finds value differently and each of us operates a business with a different methodology, goal set and/or operating model. Offering advice on price level and business model or assuming high gross profits without knowing the complete background information of the company producing the product is pointless. While you and I may agree that lowering price (or taxes) generates increased demand and therefore revenue, not everybody believes in the same model or is in a position to implement the model even if they do. At each price point for a product, each of us makes a judgement based on the value proposition of the product were are purchasing. I liked bacon at $1 a pound, but still find value at $5 a pound while others may decide that there is no valuue above $3 a pound. That value has nothing to do with the gross profit of the bacon industry, unless you decide to make your own bacon. In the end, you either find value in the product or don't. I happen to find value in the product at its current market price.