Mystery needing to be solved

[romanr]

Or maybe it's not a mystery and someone just needs to clue me in!;)
I'm wondering why my temp spikes up gradually starting after 3am. It's not a concern and my chiller keeps things in check but this happens daily and there must be a reason.
I'm thinking it's something my AC3 is doing. Please feel free to chime in.

The evidence:

09:00 07/31/2010 78.4 8.14 376
10:00 07/31/2010 77.8 8.16 372
11:00 07/31/2010 77.6 8.19 369
12:00 07/31/2010 77.7 8.20 367
13:00 07/31/2010 77.4 8.21 358
14:00 07/31/2010 77.3 8.26 357
15:00 07/31/2010 77.4 8.26 359
16:00 07/31/2010 77.4 8.26 362
17:00 07/31/2010 77.4 8.30 359
18:00 07/31/2010 77.3 8.30 357
19:00 07/31/2010 77.2 8.31 353
20:00 07/31/2010 77.1 8.34 350
21:00 07/31/2010 77.4 8.34 348
22:00 07/31/2010 76.9 8.35 347
23:00 07/31/2010 76.9 8.31 353
00:00 08/01/2010 76.9 8.27 359
01:00 08/01/2010 76.9 8.25 365
02:00 08/01/2010 76.9 8.22 373
03:00 08/01/2010 77.0 8.20 380
04:00 08/01/2010 77.2 8.18 384
05:00 08/01/2010 77.4 8.16 386
06:00 08/01/2010 77.8 8.15 387
07:00 08/01/2010 78.0 8.13 388
08:00 08/01/2010 78.2 8.12 389
09:00 08/01/2010 78.6 8.11 390

The programing:

GLO#-A01 Light to Macro Algae Refugium
HET%-A02 Heater
MHL%-A03 Metal Halide
FAN#-A04 Display and Sump Fans
ATO#-A05 Top-off pump
NAN#-A06 Circulation pump in Aquafuge which houses 2" sand bed and frags
ALM&-A07 Regular Alarm and Buzzer
REF$-A08 Light to Aquafuge
FLD&-P02 Waterbug
ADD&-P01 Sump Top-off float

If Time > 00:00 Then ALM OFF
If Time > 00:00 Then HET OFF
If Time > 00:00 Then FAN OFF
If Time > 00:00 Then NAN ON
If Time > 21:00 Then GLO ON
If Time > 06:00 Then REF ON
If Time > 10:00 Then MHL ON
If Time > 21:00 Then REF OFF
If Time > 21:00 Then MHL OFF
If Time > 10:00 Then GLO OFF
If Temp < 77.0 Then HET ON
Max Change 010 M Then HET OFF
If Switch1 OPEN Then ADD OFF
If Switch1 CLOSED Then ADD ON
If Timer ADD = OFF Then ATO OFF
If Timer ADD = ON Then ATO ON
If Switch2 OPEN Then FLD OFF
If Switch2 CLOSED Then FLD ON
If Timer MHL = ON Then FAN ON
If Temp < 74.0 Then ALM ON
If Temp > 80.0 Then FAN ON
If Temp > 81.0 Then ALM ON
If ORP > 400 Then ALM ON
If ORP < 300 Then ALM ON
If pH > 08.50 Then ATO OFF
If pH > 08.50 Then ALM ON
If pH < 08.00 Then ALM ON
If Timer FLD = ON Then ALM ON
If Timer FLD = ON Then ATO OFF
If Power 000 Then ALM ON

Other info:
My chiller comes on @ 79 and stays on until it hits 77. It is not on the AC3 and uses it's own thermostat (which is synchronized with the AC3 temp). Home air conditioning is set to 76 (24/7).

[kenargo]

Guessing based on what happens in my tank...

In the middle of the night there seems to be some activity in the water column causing the skimmer to skim out more that it does during the day (at least I find that in my tank). If it does that in your tank and your topoff kicks in perhaps the topoff water is sifficient to change the temp of the water in/around the area of the temp probe.

Again, just a guess.

[ciphros]

How large are the pumps you are running? I run two fairly large (Ampmaster 8500) external pumps. My heater doesn't ever run, but my chiller pulls duty at night as well as during the day just from the heat introduced from the pumps.

[liquidfunk]

Your heater is set to come on at 77 degrees,, at 3 am your below that.

[swearint]

From the time the Halides shut off until around 3am, the temp drops. But, then the temp starts ramping up without anything changing; except for the possibility that Ken suggested. He could try unplugging the heater at night just to make sure, but it should not be coming on. I have never used an AC3, I assume it does not create a log showing when timers turn on/off?

Todd

[RussM]

I have never used an AC3, I assume it does not create a log showing when timers turn on/off?

Toddif running v3.40 firmware, there is an outlog.XML file just like the Apex.

[ciphros]

One other thing I just noticed, you have an If Temp <77.0 Then HET ON, but no If Temp >XXX Then HET OFF (The max change statement doesn't turn it of, just keeps it off for 10 minutes once it turns off). So, it looks to me like you have a condition turning your heater on when the temp hits 69.9, but then it runs until turned off by the Time statement at 00:00 provided temp has gotten back above 77.0 (which your log data at the top shows it had not). So, you are having your chiller fighting your heater most of the day is my guess.

Add an additional If Temp >xx.x Then HET OFF and you should be fine.

One note - having the chiller drop temp to 77.0 and the heater set to come on if temp is below 77.0 (i.e. 69.9) is going to cause your heater to come on basically any time your chiller drops the temp a little more than expected. You may want to open your margin a bit and have the heater come on at 69.5 instead of 77.0 so you aren't spending money undoing the work your chiller just did.

[swearint]

One other thing I just noticed, you have an If Temp <77.0 Then HET ON, but no If Temp >XXX Then HET OFF....
I noticed that too when I first looked at it, but my understanding of the AC3 is that the Time statements are always executed first, regardless of where they occur in the code. So it basically acts like the Set OFF command on the Apex. The heater should be OFF whenever the temp is above 77F. I agree that he should modify the control on his chiller. My approach is to have a nominal temp, and then allow a max and min. The heater comes on at the min and 'pushes' up to the nominal point. The cooling (fans in my case) would come on at the max and 'push' down to the nominal. That way there is never any overlap or fighting between the two.

Todd

[ciphros]

Good point, I never use it that way, so always forget about the ordering being able to chnage state for you.

[Specialtang]

This is what I came up with for you. This is using the Seasonal Average that is already programmed in your AC


If Time > 00:00 Then ALM OFF
If Time > 00:00 Then NAN ON
If Time > 21:00 Then GLO ON
If Time > 06:00 Then REF ON
If Time > 10:00 Then MHL ON
If Time > 21:00 Then REF OFF
If Time > 21:00 Then MHL OFF
If Time > 10:00 Then GLO OFF
If Switch1 OPEN Then ADD OFF
If Switch1 CLOSED Then ADD ON
If Timer ADD = OFF Then ATO OFF
If Timer ADD = ON Then ATO ON
If Switch2 OPEN Then FLD OFF
If Switch2 CLOSED Then FLD ON
If Timer MHL = ON Then FAN ON
If ORP > 400 Then ALM ON
If ORP < 300 Then ALM ON
If pH > 08.50 Then ATO OFF
If pH > 08.50 Then ALM ON
If pH < 08.00 Then ALM ON
If Timer FLD = ON Then ALM ON
If Timer FLD = ON Then ATO OFF
If Power 000 Then ALM ON
If Temp < RT+-0.5 Then HET ON
If Temp > RT+0.0 Then HET OFF
If Temp > RT+0.5 Then FAN ON
If Temp < RT+0.0 Then FAN OFF
If Temp < RT+-4.0 Then ALM ON
If Temp < RT+2.0 Then ALM ON
If Temp > RT+0.0 Then ALM OFF