Virtual Outlets overriding Physical EB8 Outlets?

[jharding08]

I created some virtual outlets for my Apex by adding an EB8 module via the Apex Module Setup on the web interface. I added some programming to the VOs and then referenced them in my programming for the physical EB8, which is on AquaBus address 3. I have 2 lights, 2 pumps, a return, heater, skimmer and ATO hooked up to the EB8.

While I was away on vacation (of course), my friend said the ATO, which was on outlet 8 (3_8) wasnt turning off. It is programmed to turn on when a float switch is triggered. It will also stay off for a minimum of 30 minutes. I checked the status of outlet 8 on the web interface and it showed off. Something isnt right.

My virtual outlets are for things like setting sunrise/sunset, daytime and my flushes for the Tunze pumps. I added an EB8 module for my VOs with a start control address of A1. These virtual outlets show in the Outlet list as A1, A2, A3 to A8

Some things dont seem to make sense. Other EB8 modules are showing up in the module list under address 2, 4 and 5. I removed the outlets from these, just in case they are overrriding, but the physical outlets still arent acting like the programming.

Is there a way to reset all the programming and maybe start over. And if so, how do I do the Virtual Outlets correctly. Can someone explain the Adding Modules process? How does the Start Control Address work?

[RussM]

You cannot just add a virtual EB8. May I assume you mean DC8?

Post the output of the XML Status page and the XML Program page. Or better yet, if your Apex is accessible from the Internet, use Reeftronics' Program and Profile Lister (http://www.reeftronics.net/apex-program) and then copy and paste the Program section here (don't post the Profiles section)


You can wipe your outlet setup and programming by selecting the Initialize Memory->Initialize Outlets option on the Misc Setup page. Wait about 30 seconds after you click Update Misc Settings and then reboot the Apex.

The Control Address is a carryover from older generations of AquaControllers. Address can range [A-P][1-16] (i.e. A1, B5, D12, P16). Legacy peripherals such at the DB8 and DC4 were required to be configured with a starting address using little switches on the peripheral. The controller used these addresses to send commands to the peripheral. The start address was for the first port or outlet, and each additional outlet used the next sequential address. For example, if a DC4 was assigned to start at D1, then the four outlets' addresses would be D1, D2, D3, and D4. An Apex virtual outlet is really nothing more than a legacy peripheral definition without having said peripheral actually connected. All addresses should be unique. So, if you made 8 virtual outlets with a dummy DC8 using A1-A8, and you wanted to later add 4 more VOs using a dummy DC4, you'd use anything that wasn't already used, like A9, B1, or D1 as the start control address. The Apex will not let you duplicate a control address; it will not give you any error message - it just will not add the legacy peripheral.

[jharding08]

Outlet Readout from Apex Program and Profile Listing (just Outlets):

Apex Name: apex

Firmware: 4.12_5A12
Listing generated: 08/28/2012 07:18:28 by Reeftronics Apex Program and Profile Lister Tool - http://www.reeftronics.net

PROGRAM
[ BlueLED ] ( base_Var1 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Up/Down Arrows
Program:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 06:00 to 08:00 Then BlueUp
If Time 08:00 to 10:00 Then BlueUp2
If Time 10:00 to 17:00 Then ON
If Time 17:00 to 19:00 Then BlueDn2
If Time 19:00 to 21:00 Then BlueDn
If Temp > 82.0 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

[ WhiteLED ] ( base_Var2 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Up/Down Arrows
Program:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 06:30 to 08:30 Then WhiteUp
If Time 08:30 to 10:30 Then WhiteUp2
If Time 10:30 to 16:30 Then ON
If Time 16:30 to 18:30 Then WhiteDn2
If Time 18:30 to 20:30 Then WhiteDn
If Temp > 82.0 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

[ FrontTunze ] ( base_Var3 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Up/Down Arrows
Program:
Set PM-Front
If Outlet Sunrise = ON Then AM-Front
If Outlet Daytime = ON Then Day-Fron
If Outlet Sunset = ON Then AM-Front
If Outlet FlushFront = ON Then Flush
If Outlet FlushBack = ON Then PM-Front
If FeedA 000 Then Feed
If FeedD 000 Then OFF

[ BackTunze ] ( base_Var4 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Up/Down Arrows
Program:
Set PM-Back
If Outlet Sunrise = ON Then AM-Back
If Outlet Daytime = ON Then Day-Back
If Outlet Sunset = ON Then AM-Back
If Outlet FlushBack = ON Then Flush
If Outlet FlushFront = ON Then PM-Back
If FeedA 000 Then Feed
If FeedD 000 Then OFF

[ SndAlm_I6 ] ( base_Alarm )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Sound B
Program:
Set OFF

[ SndWrn_I7 ] ( base_Warn )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Sound A
Program:
Set OFF

[ EmailAlm_I5 ] ( base_email )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Email
Program:
Set OFF
If Temp > 82.0 Then ON
If Temp < 75.0 Then ON

[ Light1_3_1 ] ( 3_1 )
Program Type: Light
Display Icon: Light A
Program:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 06:00 to 21:00 Then ON
If Temp > 82.0 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

[ Light2_3_2 ] ( 3_2 )
Program Type: Light
Display Icon: Light B
Program:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 06:30 to 20:30 Then ON
If Temp > 82.0 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

[ FntTunze_3_3 ] ( 3_3 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Fan
Program:
Fallback ON
Set ON

[ BckTunze_3_4 ] ( 3_4 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Fan
Program:
Fallback ON
Set ON

[ Heater_3_5 ] ( 3_5 )
Program Type: Heater
Display Icon: Thermometer
Program:
Fallback OFF
If Temp < 77.0 Then ON
If Temp > 78.0 Then OFF

[ Return_3_6 ] ( 3_6 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Spiget
Program:
Fallback ON
Set ON
If FeedA 000 Then OFF
If FeedB 000 Then OFF
If FeedD 000 Then OFF

[ Skimmer_3_7 ] ( 3_7 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Up/Down Arrows
Program:
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If FeedA 000 Then OFF
If FeedB 000 Then OFF
If FeedD 000 Then OFF

[ ATO_3_8 ] ( 3_8 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Spiget
Program:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Switch1 CLOSED Then ON
If Switch2 OPEN Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF
If FeedD 000 Then OFF

[ Daytime ] ( Cntl:A1 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Light A
Program:
If Sun 060/-060 Then ON

[ Sunrise ] ( Cntl:A2 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Light B
Program:
If Sun 000/000 Then ON
If Outlet Daytime = ON Then OFF

[ Sunset ] ( Cntl:A3 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Up/Down Arrows
Program:
If Sun 000/000 Then ON
If Outlet Daytime = ON Then OFF

[ FlushFront ] ( Cntl:A4 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Up/Down Arrows
Program:
Set OFF
OSC 000:00/005:00/055:00 Then ON

[ FlushBack ] ( Cntl:A5 )
Program Type: Advanced
Display Icon: Up/Down Arrows
Program:
Set OFF
OSC 030:00/005:00/025:00 Then ON

[ Chiller_A6 ] ( Cntl:A6 )
Program Type: Chiller
Display Icon: Thermometer
Program:
Fallback OFF
If Temp > 79.0 Then ON
If Temp < 78.0 Then OFF

[ CO2_A7 ] ( Cntl:A7 )
Program Type: pH Control
Display Icon: Left/Right Arrows
Program:
Fallback OFF
If pH > 08.00 Then ON
If pH < 07.90 Then OFF

[ Ozone_A8 ] ( Cntl:A8 )
Program Type: ORP Control
Display Icon: Left/Right Arrows
Program:
Fallback OFF
If ORP > 375 Then OFF
If ORP < 360 Then ON

[ Light1_4_1 ] ( 4_1 )
Program Type: Light
Display Icon: Light A
Program:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 08:00 to 20:00 Then ON
If Temp > 82.0 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

[ Light2_4_2 ] ( 4_2 )
Program Type: Light
Display Icon: Light B
Program:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 08:30 to 19:30 Then ON
If Temp > 82.0 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

[ Pump1_4_3 ] ( 4_3 )
Program Type: Pump
Display Icon: Up/Down Arrows
Program:
Fallback ON
OSC 000:00/005:00/005:00 Then ON
If FeedA 000 Then OFF

[ Pump2_4_4 ] ( 4_4 )
Program Type: Pump
Display Icon: Up/Down Arrows
Program:
Fallback ON
OSC 005:00/005:00/000:00 Then ON
If FeedA 000 Then OFF

[ Heater_4_5 ] ( 4_5 )
Program Type: Heater
Display Icon: Thermometer
Program:
Fallback OFF
If Temp < 77.0 Then ON
If Temp > 78.0 Then OFF

[ Chiller_4_6 ] ( 4_6 )
Program Type: Chiller
Display Icon: Thermometer
Program:
Fallback OFF
If Temp > 79.0 Then ON
If Temp < 78.0 Then OFF

[ CO2_4_7 ] ( 4_7 )
Program Type: pH Control
Display Icon: Left/Right Arrows
Program:
Fallback OFF
If pH > 08.00 Then ON
If pH < 07.90 Then OFF

[ Ozone_5_8 ] ( 5_8 )
Program Type: ORP Control
Display Icon: Left/Right Arrows
Program:
Fallback OFF
If ORP > 375 Then OFF
If ORP < 360 Then ON

[ Ozone_4_8 ] ( 4_8 )
Program Type: ORP Control
Display Icon: Left/Right Arrows
Program:
Fallback OFF
If ORP > 375 Then OFF
If ORP < 360 Then ON

[RussM]

This is a list of the outlets:
[ BlueLED ] ( base_Var1 )
[ WhiteLED ] ( base_Var2 )
[ FrontTunze ] ( base_Var3 )
[ BackTunze ] ( base_Var4 )
[ SndAlm_I6 ] ( base_Alarm )
[ SndWrn_I7 ] ( base_Warn )
[ EmailAlm_I5 ] ( base_email )
[ Light1_3_1 ] ( 3_1 )
[ Light2_3_2 ] ( 3_2 )
[ FntTunze_3_3 ] ( 3_3 )
[ BckTunze_3_4 ] ( 3_4 )
[ Heater_3_5 ] ( 3_5 )
[ Return_3_6 ] ( 3_6 )
[ Skimmer_3_7 ] ( 3_7 )
[ ATO_3_8 ] ( 3_8 )
[ Daytime ] ( Cntl:A1 )
[ Sunrise ] ( Cntl:A2 )
[ Sunset ] ( Cntl:A3 )
[ FlushFront ] ( Cntl:A4 )
[ FlushBack ] ( Cntl:A5 )
[ Chiller_A6 ] ( Cntl:A6 )
[ CO2_A7 ] ( Cntl:A7 )
[ Ozone_A8 ] ( Cntl:A8 )
[ Light1_4_1 ] ( 4_1 )
[ Light2_4_2 ] ( 4_2 )
[ Pump1_4_3 ] ( 4_3 )
[ Pump2_4_4 ] ( 4_4 )
[ Heater_4_5 ] ( 4_5 )
[ Chiller_4_6 ] ( 4_6 )
[ CO2_4_7 ] ( 4_7 )
[ Ozone_5_8 ] ( 5_8 )
[ Ozone_4_8 ] ( 4_8 )
The values in parentheses are the internal IDs of the outlets.... the ones with X_Y are the AquaBus ID for EB8s and other Apex peripherals. The ones which have an ID of Cntl:Xn are legacy bus addresses for the virtual DC8 you added. Notice that there is another EB8 there having AquaBus ID 4, and one outlet from another EB8 with ID 5. Notice that they all have default outlet names... you have what's known as phantom or ghost modules. If you do a test using Manual ON/OFF, I think you'll find that [ Ozone_4_8 ] ( 4_8 ) or [ Ozone_5_8 ] ( 5_8 ) is actually controlling your ATO
outlet.

I suggest you call/email Neptune and get them to help you fix it. If you try to do it on your own, you will need to initialize AquaBus and initialize outlets, which will wipe all of your programming. If you do try to do it yourself, pull another Program and Profile report from Reeftronics in PDF format and save it to your computer so you easily refer to it when rebuilding your outlet names and programming... you can even copy/paste programming from the report to make it easier.

[jharding08]

I dont mind redoing all my programming. I dont see the (4_x) and (5_x) outlets in the Delete Outlet program.

If I do the Initialize Memory->Initialize Outlets, will I just need to reprogram my Outlets and Profiles? Will just the physical EB8 outlets show at that point?

ALso, after that, what is the correct procedure to add 8 virtual outlets for programming?

[RussM]

If you try to delete EB8 outlets individually, you will hose things even further.

You need to do Initialize Memory->Initialize Outlets *AND* Initialize Memory->Initialize AquaBus. Wait 30-60 seconds after each, then reboot before doing anything else. After the reboot, you should only have the 7 internal outlets (4 VarSPd + 3 Alarm/Warning), and the 8 EB8 outlets.

You already know how to create virtual outlets.... choose the appropriate virtual legacy device to add based on the number of VOs you want (DC8 will give you 8, DC4HD gives 2, AquaSurf gives 2, LunarSim gives 1). Choose the start control address (just use A1 for the first set of VOs), then Add Module.

And just to be sure... confirm that you have only one actual EB8.

[jharding08]

I will definitely try that when I get home. THanks for your help, you are a lifesaver.

ANy idea how the extra EB8 outlets got in my system and overrode the original EB8?

[RussM]

I don't know for sure why ghost modules appear, but they do in some cases for some people. Supposedly it has to do with communication errors between the Apex base and the modules. If you call Neptune, they can make an internal setting change to prevent (or at least reduce the likelihood of) this from happening again.

[jharding08]

Performing the Initialize Outlets and Initialize Aquabus set me back successfully to just the EB8 and Variable Speed Outlets. The EB8 is now at Aquabus address 4 instead of 3, but I just adjusted my programming to show the change. Thanks for your help. I reprogrammed the outlets I needed, adding one DC8 at address A1 and all seems back to normal.

I did notice that it took about 20 seconds after I selected Feed A to actually turn the pumps off when I first had done the reprogramming, but this morning it was back to normal speed.

Another thing I noticed is that on my display, it isnt showing the EB8 icons and statuses nor is it showing the Amps for the EB8 (should be Amp_4).

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e23/jharding08/Reef/IMG_20120828_193534.jpg

Any Ideas how to get this back? I performed the restarts after Initializing memory each time by selecting Restart from the Net Setup menu

[RussM]

Display setup web page - set the 4 display screens as desired.

[jharding08]

Thanks for that, I didnt know you could customize the display like that. What a nice feature.

I'm still experiencing some latency when using the Feed Cycle and manually turning things on and off. This also affects the ATO which runs on switches. Will it eventually even out or do I need to do a restart or something else?

Thanks again for your help

[Mpfaff77]

You can hook a doorbell button to activate a feed cycle. It just hooks up to the breakout box and have to hold button down for few seconds. I use mine for a maintenance and shuts few things off for 30 min. Mainly use it for skimmer cup cleaning or quick feed.


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