Heniochus diphreutes vs. acuminatus???

bigworm175 · 04/26/2009, 12:13 PM

Ok, I've read every site I can find on these two and I still can't tell what the difference is. I really want one or two but diphreutes is the only one that appears to have a chance of staying in my reef (I know there is a good chance diphreutes will eat my reef too but I can't resist.) I have read a thousand times about how the last black stripe is supposed to end higher on the acuminatus' anal fin and it has a longer nose but I have yet to find one picture where I can tell what they are talking about. Does anyone have good comparison pictures or could help me figure this out? A better explaination maybe? I'm not trusting a lfs' word on this one.

SDguy · 04/26/2009, 12:20 PM

Diphreutes: Back edge of the anal fin goes straight down from the base of the tail:

Acuminatus: Anal fin back edge angles back with the edge of the tail...

SDguy · 04/26/2009, 12:24 PM

The comment you mention about the black stripe ending higher on the anal fin in the acuminatus refers to the tip of the anal fin. Look how the lower portion of that tip has more white on it in acuminatus than in diphreutes. In diphreutes, it cuts basically equally in half black/white at the tip.

Sure there are also mouth shape differences, and face shape differences, but that anal fin is the easiest way to tell, IMO, especially with small juveniles.

hth

bigworm175 · 04/26/2009, 04:59 PM

Ahh. That's the best comparison I've seen yet.That helps a lot. thanks!

kamla · 04/14/2011, 09:42 AM

SDguy - can u put of the pics again..

sorry i know this is an old thread

badvegan · 05/05/2011, 12:55 AM

This is the best description i have seen yet, can anyone post pics?

SDguy · 05/05/2011, 05:26 AM

diphreutes: Angular anal fin with a back edge that drops down at a 90 degree angle from the tail. Mostly equal parts white/black at the tip.
http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/Thumb...ry.php?ID=7769

Acuminatus: More rounded anal fin, sweeps back past the base of the tail, generally with more white at the tip.
http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/Thumb...ry.php?ID=5588

It can sometimes be tough to see in pictures, depending on the slight angle on the anal fin in the shot, or on the degree of fin extension, but trust me, when you see them in person, side by side, you'll see it imediately, and have no problem ID'ing them from then on.

dougc · 05/05/2011, 11:28 AM

I agree. I can't tell them apart with any confidence in isolation, but it is easy when you can compare them.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

Matt_Wandell · 05/05/2011, 10:14 PM

I find it easier to see it in the shape of the mouth and chest in juvies. But I can see it in the anal fin too.

djze · 05/05/2011, 11:35 PM

for me i find it easier to distinguish the 2 by the mouth and chest but the fin also helps out a lot to determan 2. the pictures in the links that sdguy posted up clearly shows the big deference

Rockys_Pride · 05/08/2011, 10:51 AM

So these from PIA are diphreutes?

Matt_Wandell · 05/08/2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockys_Pride

So these from PIA are diphreutes?

We need a better photo...

Matt_Wandell · 05/08/2011, 10:58 AM

Oh, now that I look at their website I see that those are listed under "Hawaiian Fish".

IF they are actually from Hawaii, then they are certainly H. diphreutes. H. acuminatus does not occur there.

LoneRanger · 05/23/2011, 07:44 AM

so this is mislabeled then at liveaquaria?
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_...242&pcatid=242

looking to get one to help with aptasia!

L.R.

29reef · 05/23/2011, 01:46 PM

It would appear that way given the angle of the anal fin.

Guillaume · 06/01/2012, 06:17 PM

Great reference thread! Anyone here up to such an ID exercise here?:http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2176386

Zuuu · 09/29/2014, 05:09 AM

First column of images is from liveaquaria.com, second column from the post above.

Heniochus-diff.jpg

If we draw a line starting from the middle of the tail and ending in the middle of the mouth (between "lips") then there seems to be following pattern:
1) Heniochus diphreutes - line goes through the eye (or touches it)
2) Heniochus acuminata - line goes below the eye (doesn't touch it)

Maybe that is only working for these pictures, not sure, try yourself

locke1990 · 06/06/2018, 06:18 AM

I am going to go out and see if I can find one or two of these longfin bannerfish for my reef tank, but I have a couple questions on them.

1. Can I get more than one safely?
2. I currently have a coral beauty, snowflake eel, boxfish, sailfin tang, and a powder brown tang. Will there be any potential problems between those fish and one of these? I have a 125g tank.

Thanks.

04/26/2009, 12:13 PM	#1
bigworm175 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Denver Posts: 418	Heniochus diphreutes vs. acuminatus??? Ok, I've read every site I can find on these two and I still can't tell what the difference is. I really want one or two but diphreutes is the only one that appears to have a chance of staying in my reef (I know there is a good chance diphreutes will eat my reef too but I can't resist.) I have read a thousand times about how the last black stripe is supposed to end higher on the acuminatus' anal fin and it has a longer nose but I have yet to find one picture where I can tell what they are talking about. Does anyone have good comparison pictures or could help me figure this out? A better explaination maybe? I'm not trusting a lfs' word on this one.

04/26/2009, 12:20 PM	#2
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Diphreutes: Back edge of the anal fin goes straight down from the base of the tail: Acuminatus: Anal fin back edge angles back with the edge of the tail... __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

04/26/2009, 12:24 PM	#3
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	The comment you mention about the black stripe ending higher on the anal fin in the acuminatus refers to the tip of the anal fin. Look how the lower portion of that tip has more white on it in acuminatus than in diphreutes. In diphreutes, it cuts basically equally in half black/white at the tip. Sure there are also mouth shape differences, and face shape differences, but that anal fin is the easiest way to tell, IMO, especially with small juveniles. hth __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

05/05/2011, 12:55 AM	#6
badvegan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 43	Yes need pics This is the best description i have seen yet, can anyone post pics?

05/05/2011, 05:26 AM	#7
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	diphreutes: Angular anal fin with a back edge that drops down at a 90 degree angle from the tail. Mostly equal parts white/black at the tip. http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/Thumb...ry.php?ID=7769 Acuminatus: More rounded anal fin, sweeps back past the base of the tail, generally with more white at the tip. http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/Thumb...ry.php?ID=5588 It can sometimes be tough to see in pictures, depending on the slight angle on the anal fin in the shot, or on the degree of fin extension, but trust me, when you see them in person, side by side, you'll see it imediately, and have no problem ID'ing them from then on. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

04/26/2009, 04:59 PM	#4
bigworm175 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Denver Posts: 418	Ahh. That's the best comparison I've seen yet.That helps a lot. thanks!

04/14/2011, 09:42 AM	#5
kamla Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 489	SDguy - can u put of the pics again.. sorry i know this is an old thread

05/05/2011, 11:28 AM	#8
dougc Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Cherry HIll, NJ Posts: 751	I agree. I can't tell them apart with any confidence in isolation, but it is easy when you can compare them. Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk __________________ Those are my principles and if you don't like 'em I have others. Current Tank Info: 180g AGA RR, Ecosystem,AI SOL LEDs, Apex controller, MRC CR, Tunze 6100s, Osmolator

05/05/2011, 10:14 PM	#9
Matt_Wandell Moved On Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SF CA Posts: 1,257	I find it easier to see it in the shape of the mouth and chest in juvies. But I can see it in the anal fin too.

05/05/2011, 11:35 PM	#10
djze Moved On Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: newark Posts: 136	for me i find it easier to distinguish the 2 by the mouth and chest but the fin also helps out a lot to determan 2. the pictures in the links that sdguy posted up clearly shows the big deference

05/08/2011, 10:51 AM	#11
Rockys_Pride Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: colorado Posts: 490	So these from PIA are diphreutes?

05/08/2011, 10:58 AM	#13
Matt_Wandell Moved On Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SF CA Posts: 1,257	Oh, now that I look at their website I see that those are listed under "Hawaiian Fish". IF they are actually from Hawaii, then they are certainly H. diphreutes. H. acuminatus does not occur there.

05/23/2011, 07:44 AM	#14
LoneRanger Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ocala, Fl Posts: 261	so this is mislabeled then at liveaquaria? http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_...242&pcatid=242 looking to get one to help with aptasia! L.R. __________________ Profanity Makes Ignorance Audible Current Tank Info: 300+ Room Divider

05/23/2011, 01:46 PM	#15
29reef It's all about the flow Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Huntington Beach OC Posts: 3,643	It would appear that way given the angle of the anal fin. __________________ -Brian RIP-The Metal Halide- My SPS may never know such a great friend again. Current Tank Info: Currently Tankless

06/01/2012, 06:17 PM	#16
Guillaume Another reef dependant Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Québec Posts: 505	Great reference thread! Anyone here up to such an ID exercise here?:http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2176386 __________________ G Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef

09/29/2014, 05:09 AM	#17
Zuuu Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ukraine Posts: 11	First column of images is from liveaquaria.com, second column from the post above. Heniochus-diff.jpg If we draw a line starting from the middle of the tail and ending in the middle of the mouth (between "lips") then there seems to be following pattern: 1) Heniochus diphreutes - line goes through the eye (or touches it) 2) Heniochus acuminata - line goes below the eye (doesn't touch it) Maybe that is only working for these pictures, not sure, try yourself

06/06/2018, 06:18 AM	#18
locke1990 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 1	I know this is an old post, but I have a new questions on it. I am going to go out and see if I can find one or two of these longfin bannerfish for my reef tank, but I have a couple questions on them. 1. Can I get more than one safely? 2. I currently have a coral beauty, snowflake eel, boxfish, sailfin tang, and a powder brown tang. Will there be any potential problems between those fish and one of these? I have a 125g tank. Thanks.