The CO2 scrubber - any comments?

[sjm817]

Saw this on one of the sponsor sites. Any idea what the media is and if this actually works?

http://www.mcuresearch.com/co2.html

Does This Look Familiar?
Calcium Alkalinity PH
420 mg/l 11 dKH 7.81

Raise pH without chemical additives.


Raises pH an average of .05 to .23 points and keeps it there.
Dramatically increases skimmer production.
Easily connects to the air input hose on any Protein Skimmer.
Stays dry. NO contact with tank water. Does not adversely affect alkalinity, calcium levels, or any other water properties.
Media lasts 1 - 3 months, depending upon skimmer air volume.
Color changing media indicates when cartridge needs replacing.
Model Description Price
CO-KIT CO2 Scrubber kit includes adapter, connector, silicone
tubing, instruction manual, and one media cartridge. $79.95
CO-10R Replacement media cartridge $29.95

CO2 Scrubber FAQ

How does the CO2 SCRUBBER work?
While Skimmers raise oxygen levels, they also raise carbon dioxide levels. CO2 accumulates in marine and reef aquariums at higher than ambient levels, causing a drop in pH. The CO2 SCRUBBER removes carbon dioxide from the air drawn by the skimmer, lowering CO2 levels in the aquarium water. As a result, the pH rises and stabilizes naturally at a new higher level.


Will it work with my model/brand of protein skimmer?
The CO2 SCRUBBER comes with all fittings and tubing necessary to connect to protein skimmers with either 1/4-inch or 3/8-inch suction hose. The unit is rated for skimmers that draw up to 2000 lph (liters per hour) of air. If you skimmer draws over 2000 lph, you can gang 2 scrubber units together. You can also gang two units together on smaller skimmers to double the time between media replacement.



How does it raise my protein skimmer production?

By removing CO2 and conditioning the air entering the skimmer, you will experience a rise in the amount of skimmate or "gunk" in your skimmer cup. The benefit is lower nutrient levels (nitrates, phosphates, DOC) which fuels film and hair algae.


Will it slow down the air intake of my skimmer?
No. The grain size of the media is large enough to allow air to pass freely through it. It won't affect the venturi suction on either needle-wheel or pure venturi style skimmers.


How do I install it?
The CO2 SCRUBBER requires a Protein Skimmer. It connects to the air intake hose on any needle-wheel or venturi style skimmer. It can also be used on air-driven skimmers by connecting an air pump to the unit.


How can I test for excess CO2 levels?
CO2 test kits for freshwater will not work in saltwater, because of high carbonates and bicarbonate salts which will distort the readings. A simple test for excess CO2 is to put a half-gallon of tank water in a bucket. Put the bucket outside or near an open window and using a small air pump, aerate the water vigorously for 24 hours. Now compare the pH of the aquarium water to the water in the bucket. If the water in the bucket has a higher pH, you have excess CO2.


Isn't some Carbon Dioxide necessary in the aquarium?
The CO2 SCRUBBER does not remove carbon dioxide from the aquarium. It prevents excess CO2 from accumulating in the tank water. Low levels of CO2 are always present in the aquarium. John Tullock (in Natural Reef Aquariums) recommends that carbon dioxide levels be kept below 2.0 mg/l in order prevent excess algae and harm to the livestock.


How much will my pH go up?
This depends on the environment of the aquarium. Offices and homes with central air and heating where windows are not opened very frequently will see a sharp rise in pH. On the average, you can expect a .05 to .23 increase in pH depending upon conditions.


Does the CO2 SCRUBBER add chemicals to the water?
No. The CO2 SCRUBBER stays dry and is never in contact with the aquarium water.


How long does the CO2 media last?
This depends on the size of the skimmer and the amount of air being drawn. The lifetime of the media is about twice that of Activated Carbon. You can expect the media to last from 1 - 3 months in most applications. Even longer for smaller skimmers.


Does it affect Calcium/Magnesium/Alkalinity levels?
The CO2 SCRUBBER will not raise alkalinity levels. However, if you regularly use carbonate buffers to raise alkalinity, the CO2 SCRUBBER will make these additives work harder. You may find that you can use less alkalinity buffers. There is no affect on calcium or magnesium levels.


How do I know when to change the CO2 media?
The CO2 media has a color indicator that causes it to change color as it gets exhausted. It is important to understand that unlike color-changing RO/DI Resins that change color when exhausted, the CO2 media changes color during its entire lifecycle. It starts out a white color and will turn a pale blue fairly quickly. The media will continue to change to a dark blue/purple color as it approaches the end of its useful life. If you have a pH controller or pH test kit, you can also monitor pH levels and replace the cartridge when the pH drops.


Can I run tank water through the unit?
No. The CO2 media must be kept dry and used only with air. Running aquarium water through it will ruin the media and may cause harm to your livestock.


Will my pH levels still drop at night?
Yes. Carbon dioxide is created in the aquarium by algae and organisms during the night. However, the drop in pH will be relative to your new higher levels, so the drop will not be as significant.


Does the CO2 SCRUBBER need to be kept upright?
No. You can mount it horizontally, vertically, or in any orientation. The unit should be mounted at or above the skimmer air intake hose to prevent back siphoning when the skimmer is unplugged or loses power.


Can I recharge the CO2 media?
No. When CO2 is absorbed by the media it chemically changes and cannot be recharged.


Is the CO2 media hazardous?
No, it is rated non-Hazmat. Old cartridges may be safely disposed of with household trash.

[loudell]

Let me start out by saying that I have not seen the CO2 scrubber product but I can tell you that CO2 absorbent media has been used in the anesthesia market for many years. It is very efficient and not expensive at all.

http://www.smiths-medical.com/catalo...absorbent.html

[erbio]

Lithium Hydroxide or Soda Lime
Run skimmer air hose through media.
Replace the media when it turns dark blue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_hydroxide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_lime

[Boomer]

We had this up before

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...t=CO2+SCRUBBER

The issue with this unit is that the media is exhausted pretty darn fast but does work. jd and I talked to Jeremy form PA, who is selling it, to try and get him to get them a better media for CO2 adsorption and possible to degas the CO2 out of the media by heating it. We do not know what media they are using but it may be the stuff Lou posted which is soda Lime based but there are many others such as mad-made Zeolites that also specialize in CO2 removal used in PSA for O2 genarators

[Young Frankenstein]

very expensive stuff, boomer can you give me a formula for a DIY soda lime ?
found this link and is pretty darn expensive
http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVA...FSkHswod2jJm2A

[victor90]

The amount of co2 in the air is very low would this really make a difference

[Young Frankenstein]

Originally Posted by ATB USA

The amount of co2 in the air is very low would this really make a difference

I think someone just invented another product for us to spend money on, that's for sure Love the ATB skimmers BTW, maybe some day you can come up with something affordable for the average user

[sjm817]

Thanks for all the comments. This seems like a good idea if cost effective replacement media could be had. Any idea of the pricing on that Sodasorb?

[Jeff]

16.00 for a qt of soda lime= http://www.coneinstruments.com/CIpro...roduct_ID=5249
A couple things from this page for around $20.00= http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/RO/DI-..._97/index.html
And you are all set.

[sjm817]

Thnx Jeff

Anyone care to comment on this one? How does the reduced CO2 improve skimming?

How does it raise my protein skimmer production?

By removing CO2 and conditioning the air entering the skimmer, you will experience a rise in the amount of skimmate or "gunk" in your skimmer cup. The benefit is lower nutrient levels (nitrates, phosphates, DOC) which fuels film and hair algae.

[Jeff]

Approx 19 refills for $103.00 plus shipping. Around $5.50 per change. http://www.amronintl.com/products.cfm?pageID=685

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

By removing CO2 and conditioning the air entering the skimmer, you will experience a rise in the amount of skimmate or "gunk" in your skimmer cup. The benefit is lower nutrient levels (nitrates, phosphates, DOC) which fuels film and hair algae.

Because of the small pH boost that removing some of the CO2 causes?

[Jeff]

Welcome back Randy!!!!!! Now guide us!

[Young Frankenstein]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

By removing CO2 and conditioning the air entering the skimmer, you will experience a rise in the amount of skimmate or "gunk" in your skimmer cup. The benefit is lower nutrient levels (nitrates, phosphates, DOC) which fuels film and hair algae.

Because of the small pH boost that removing some of the CO2 causes?

I guess that comment ended the discussion Thats why I like to have Randy around, he is my reef protector

[loudell]

The Sodasorb product by Grace Industries is pretty high end media. I'm not sure if there is a lower priced non-medical version at a lower cost. But at $100 bucks for a 5 gallon bucket it would be interesting to see how long it will be effective. Should anyone try the 5 gallon bucket you should be able to create a table of days used versus pH increase per pound used.
The key to using it is to seal the container of sodasorb and be sure that all the air drawn through it goes to directly to the venturi protein skimmer.
I do not believe that it can be regenerated.
BTW...you should be able to find the 5 gallon bucket for about $75. FYI the 5 gallon bucket contains 37 pounds of sodasorb. I would think that a canister filled with sodasorb would weigh between 1/2 to 1 pound at a cost of $1 to $2 per canister.

[luther1200]

My concern would be some one like me who's skimmer only pulls 400lph. Would it even be affective with that type of air draw? I do have a low pH problem because my tank is in a small room. So I may even be willing to be a guinea pig on this one.

[greenmonkey51]

Who wants to be the guinea pig for a DIY C02 scrubber.

[loudell]

Here ya go....
http://www.diverssupplyinc.net/searc...imageField.y=0

[luther1200]

I'll try the DIY version maybe, but I would like to be able to buy less than 5 gallons of sodasorb in case it doesn't work well. I don't want to be stuck with a ton of the stuff. If it does work well I will buy the big bucket. I might anyway, but it would be nice to get a small amount to test it out with.

[atkinsg]

Just a little calculating of how long this Sodasorb will last.

The Sodasorb web site says that 100g of Sodasorb absorbs 15L of CO2, and that their 5Gal bucket contains 16.8Kg of Sodasorb.

The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is around 387 ppm by volume. Lets use 400 ppm to make the numbers easier. This means that 100g of Sodasorb, if it were 100% efficient, should remove the CO2 from 37,500L of air, or 375L of air/1g sodasorb.

The 5Gal, 16.8Kg bucket should remove the CO2 from 6,300,000L of air (375L/g X 16,800g).

So if your skimmer draws 500L/hr the 16.8Kg of Sodasorb should last 525 days. If you figure that the CO2 concentration inside your house is triple that of the outdoor air, your 5Gal bucket will last 175 days.

[Jeff]

Wow, nice calculating. My skimmer draws 1700L/hr so it may only last around 2 months .

[loudell]

Kudos for the calculation atkinsq. I tend to think that co2 does not rebuild as quickly after it is removed from the air so my estimate is that it will last about 8-9 months.
I like this concept although it would be advisable first to determine exactly how much benefit you can expect by aerating some tank water outside to see the pH difference. I've spoken to some people with canopies on their tanks and the pH is depressed 0.15 to 0.20 which is significant. Someone with a tight canopy or top on the tank would be a prime candidate.
It is also nice that this solution is not something that is added to the system water but something that will deduct from the system. Too many quick fix additives are never the answer.

[Boomer]

atkinsg

Nice for you to do the math but I think it is off

Where did you get this from "375 " ?

400 ppm CO2 = .400 ml / l CO2 in atm air

A room of ~ 34,000 liter (~ 8 x 12.5 x 12.5 ft) @ 370ppm, has ~12.5 liters of CO2

I wrote Smith Medical to see what the had to say, @ 1 liter of a SODASORB @ 2000 l / hr air flow.

Media lasts 1 - 3 months, depending upon skimmer air volume @ ~$30.00

And that is a atm CO2. Jeremy's lasted like 2 weeks = ~ $800.00 / year. Even if it did last 1 month that is still ~ 350 / year. And is based on 2000 lph (liters per hour) of air. I do not know the the CO2 Scrubber is using Sodasorb or not. Lastly, since it is a media it needs to be a set flow rate for max adsorption obviously the slower the better.

And obviously as Lou showed that ~$30.00 / refill from MCU is way out of line. I looked at this cartridge and it is not rocket science to take it apart an fill with Lou's stuff or just get a refillable one. I will add the MSU also has color indicator beads for exhaustion.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Personally, I think such a method is a lot more trouble than it is worth, but here are some older threads on CO2 scrubbers that you DIY with things like lye or limewater:.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1054339

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=116479

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=532444

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...threadid=99629

[HighlandReefer]

Boomer,

What's with the "Boomer+" seen at the bottom of the page?

Are you on steroids now?