MB7/Vodka dosing guide

[SunnyX]

I've had this posted on another site for quite a while. I feel that now is a good time to post this here for prospective users.

Good luck,

Sonny






JUNE 18 2010:

Hello fellow reefers! I have received quite a few questions concerning the dosing of probiotics and carbon sources so I have decided to start this thread. FORUM PRO's will reply to your question.

Thank you,

Sonny


MicroBacter7/Vodka dosing guide


So, I am sure by now many of you have heard of people dosing vodka and bacteria into their systems. You first thought may have been "what" or "why", but I am here to help explain the reasons behind why those of us who do dose vodka do so.

Let me start by saying I am not an expert on the subject. I am not a scientist and cannot get into the intricate details of how and why the dosing of vodka works. I can however tell you what has worked for me and give you a general idea of how vodka dosing aids ones system. Please keep in mind that this dosing system is not without risks. You can wipe out your system if the proper procedures are not followed.

Before reading what I have to say below be sure to check out the links below:

(This will give you a general idea on how much vodka to dose)
Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com

(This is a simple overview of the vodka dosing trend in this hobby)
Gimme a Vodka, on the Live Rocks, with a Splash of Heavy Skimming. (03/30/10) / Feature Articles - Quality Marine


Basically, the ethanol in vodka feeds bacteria in your aquarium which in turn multiply. When the bacteria multiplies it consumes N03 and P04. The bacteria, along with the nutrients it has consumed is then exported by a large protein skimmer. The bacteria, in this case MB7, is added in order to keep the bacteria diversified and help stave off red slime. You can dose vodka alone but I wouldn't recommend it.

When I first setup my current tank I had been adding Microbacter7 from Brightwell aquatics. While this help the tank I wasn't all that impressed. It wasn't until I started dosing vodka that things really took off. Within a month of dosing vodka I no longer had to use GFO. Within 3 months I actually had to add Amino Acids and feed the tank more as it had become "too clean". The corals had lightened up and actually stopped growing. After cutting back a bit on the vodka dosage and adding more food the corals once again took off.


Please note that you MUST have a sufficient sized skimmer and proper aeration to employ this dosing system. Reefers have crashed their setups by not running a skimmer or having proper flow/aeration.

Here are some things I have observed when dosing MB7/vodka:

PROS
-My skimmer is pulling out more gunk then ever
-My water is even clearer now
-Polyp extension in corals has greatly increased
-Coral growth has exploded. Within two weeks of dosing I have counted 36 new, small coral heads coming out of my large mille.
-The sand bed is whiter.
-Glass and overflow box stay cleaner longer.
-Coraline algae has begun to show up on pumps and over flow.

CONS
-Some corals have lightened up even more.
-Red slime is appearing in spot it hasn't before.
-Bacteria is making my sand bed clumpy, so I have to gravel vac it twice a month.


Is vodka dosing for everyone? No. But for these of you willing to take the time to understand and implement this system it can change the way you go about reef keeping. The system is simple and cost effective, allowing you to achive near ocean like water quality without the use of expensive GFO or refugiums.

If you decide to dose MB7/Vodka here are some helpful tips:


MB7 (Bottle Instructions.)
+
Vodka (or carbon) Dosing - Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com
=========================
Probiotic Reef Keeping.

Time to dose = during lights on seems best. MB7 into the display. Vodka into the sump.

Rules
1) Need a good skimmer

Noticed in Water testing
1) high nitrates = increase vodka as per instructions.
2) no Nitrate/Po4 change in LONG time = try another carbon source like vinegar, sugar, biofuel...
3) low nitrates = maintain till 0 then reduce to maintenance levels of vodka
4) Increase in Alk = stop dosing Cal / alk, test water change h20 for alk level. Decrease with large water changes and/or chemicals if it gets bad. Corals may stop taking Cal/ALK while getting used to Probiotic system & increased light.
4) new tank/build = follow instructions, stay close to the low side of dosing.
5) Phosphate being high = a round of GFO

Noticed in Algae/Bacteria Reaction
1) Bacterial Blooms (slimy white strings) = too much bacteria, decrease vodka dosing.
2) algae on glass after increase of MB7 = reduce MB7 :P
3) brown dusting or brown hair like stuff = decrease MB7 (also check http://www.rimlessreef.com/1/post/20...eament-of.html )
4) cyano = increase MB7 and/or lower/stop vodka dose. After the cyano has gone away restart the vodka from the initial or maintenence dose. If it's really bad consider a "lights out" period. If really really bad consider "Red Slime Remover."
5) peach fuzz = stop or decrease (especially vodka) dosing for a while (about a week or till the fuzz dies off) then start back up with the maintenance dose. OR This may also just go away in time.
6) glass and sand getting dirtier = dose more/feed less

Noticed in Live Stock Reaction
1) Corals losing color = more feeding, possibly Amino Acids, lower photo period an hour for a while.
2) Corals Burnt Tips = check alkalinity..get it to 7-8 dKH by stop dosing alk...maybe stop dosing EVERYTHING if it gets bad.
3) Monti caps bleaching = Cut the vodka dosage in half and stay there until the cap starts to color up and/or lower the lighting photoperiod for a bit or have a light "day off."
4) Everything dies = Blame the wife, kids, or something other than your own possible mistakes )

Other
1) substrate hardening = keep it broken up and siphoned with water changes. Maintain a good high PH of 8.1 - 8.3


I just wanted to show you what this method has done for me. Here are examples from my old Rimless setup:

Here is my old Rimless, 13 months apart:





And 5 months after that:




This is just a basic observation on carbon dosing. Please feel free to add any information/experiences you have had with this dosing method. Please also keep in mind that this method is not a miracle cure or anything of the sort. You will still need proper husbandry, lighting, and flow in order to be successful.




Sonny

[reefyourself]

Hey Sonny,

Thank you very much for the information! Will be starting vodka/MB7 on my 25 gallon! Just waiting for my Reef Octopus NWB 110 to come in. My tank is composed mainly of sps and will be adding quite a few more in the next couple of weeks.

[Nam Nguyen]

what is MP7?
look like i need to start something new now>

[Pnoytoitz]

Nice Sonny

[Nam Nguyen]

MB7 into the display. Vodka into the sump?? can i just dose vodka only or i have to dose MB7 together?
one more thing is about 5-10ml for 250 gallon. so what is axactly doses for gallons? i dont get it. pls anyone give me some advise.
thanks

[iap]

You can dose vodka alone but I wouldn't recommend it.

And click the links that sunny posted up there it shows you how much to dose according to your water volume.

[Felixc395]

Thanks so much for this info!!! I dose MB7, and these will be great guidelines for dosing on my new tank. Thanks, great post!

[SunnyX]

I'm glad that this is helping many of you.

Originally Posted by Nam Nguyen

MB7 into the display. Vodka into the sump?? can i just dose vodka only or i have to dose MB7 together?
one more thing is about 5-10ml for 250 gallon. so what is axactly doses for gallons? i dont get it. pls anyone give me some advise.
thanks

Hello, I would recommend dosing MB7 along with vodka. This way you will ensure that beneficial bacteria is eating up the carbon. Please check the vodka link above for dosage. You can dose in the dump or display, your call.


Sonny

[mrpet]

can you or would you dose vodka with prodibio? if anyone does please let me know what worked for you i have used prodibio for over a year now im happy with it just if i can or should use vodka as well?

[ykh]

nice looking tank! do you have to continue dosing MB7 or you only need to dose it for the first few months?

[SunnyX]

Originally Posted by mrpet

can you or would you dose vodka with prodibio? if anyone does please let me know what worked for you i have used prodibio for over a year now im happy with it just if i can or should use vodka as well?

If you are dosing only the bacterial portion of prodibio then you should he good to dose vodka. If you are happy with your setup then I wouldn't even start dosing vodka.



Sonny

[SunnyX]

Originally Posted by ykh

nice looking tank! do you have to continue dosing MB7 or you only need to dose it for the first few months?

Thanks. You should continue to dose bacteria throughout the life of the process. The addition of bacteria will help keep nasty bacteria such as red slime at bay.



Sonny

[compuatic]

Great thread. I don't see any info that discusses specifically how to determine how much MB7 one should be dosing. All the links talk about the vodka only. How did you determine how much MB7 to use Sonny and how much are you using?

[Manwolf]

Great Avatar, it would be better if Kaka had a Madrid jersey

[iap]

The dosing instructions for mb7 are on the bottle.

[jmchzn123]

OK I know this is a dumb question. Would any of this help with the "joe" starting slowly method? lol
I have a 90. DSB/ LOTS o live rock/ some clams/ softies/zoe's/shrooms/lots of little fishes/verts.......Nothing crazy. No SPS right now let me get this right first.
I just started the Bio-Fuel.

WEEKLY BI WEEKLY MONTHLY - 2Part, reef complete,lugo, snow. Selcon for the mysis. 5% water change weekly. Reef Crystals..(I'm changing to seachem reef salt). Tunze wave for motion/ Starfire Tech tank lots of flow/ BK 180 mini-30gal sump w GAC/GFO. oh and a UV (25w). I'm getting good results...NOT GREAT...I'm missing someting or doing too much..I ALWAYS have zero NO3/PO4/PH 8.2-8.4/ ALSO ALWAYS HAVE CONSTANT issues w CA/ALK usually in the right range I stress range.

[tegee]

Sonny......are you implementing the MB7/Vodka dosing program with your new tank?

[SunnyX]

Originally Posted by jmchzn123

OK I know this is a dumb question. Would any of this help with the "joe" starting slowly method? lol
I have a 90. DSB/ LOTS o live rock/ some clams/ softies/zoe's/shrooms/lots of little fishes/verts.......Nothing crazy. No SPS right now let me get this right first.
I just started the Bio-Fuel.

WEEKLY BI WEEKLY MONTHLY - 2Part, reef complete,lugo, snow. Selcon for the mysis. 5% water change weekly. Reef Crystals..(I'm changing to seachem reef salt). Tunze wave for motion/ Starfire Tech tank lots of flow/ BK 180 mini-30gal sump w GAC/GFO. oh and a UV (25w). I'm getting good results...NOT GREAT...I'm missing someting or doing too much..I ALWAYS have zero NO3/PO4/PH 8.2-8.4/ ALSO ALWAYS HAVE CONSTANT issues w CA/ALK usually in the right range I stress range.

Well, it can't hurt to add bacteria. If you are always adding biofuel then it would be wise to add mb7 as well.

Sonny

[SunnyX]

Originally Posted by tegee

Sonny......are you implementing the MB7/Vodka dosing program with your new tank?

Hello, yes I went back to my old ways. I have a zeo reactor but never got around to firing it up. I have been experimenting with a few different methods, but came back to this as it is the simplest. I will likely start testing out biopellets soon. Cyano is a constant threat when dosing vodka, and keeping the carbon in your system from saturation can be tricky. If I can run the pellets and dose mb7 with similar results to what I am doing now I will be happy.

But, until biopellets reach a more favorable price point this will be continue to be the simplest and most cost effective methods of keeping nutrients at bay.

Sonny

[seesick]

I get cyano(red slime) outbreak every time I try Mb7/BioFuel….cyano starts at about day #4 and can’t get rid of it, till I stop dosing (siphon it out) wait 2 weeks and try again…. And here come the cyano have been dosing less and less each time I start-over, but from reading this tread I should be doing the opposite more Mb7 and maybe less BioFuel (carbon source) also I do not dose BioFuel the first 2 weeks like the bottle reads

[urbaneks]

What are the best test kits to measure nitrates and phosphates. I currently use Salifert Kits and it never registers any phosphates. While I'd like to believe this I'm afraid it's just to good to be true.

[iap]

I think the "best" test for phosphates is a Hanna meter. .although there is some margin of error

[Gilby]

Sonny,

How much MB7 do you or did you dose with Vodka? Did you dose it everyday or just once a week?

[allsps40]

^ I would also like to know. Do you dose MB7 daily along with the vodka or a large weekly dose. I know you said follow bottle instructions. Are you following the ULNS dose or the new tank/high nutrient dose??