Pukani Rock leacing PO4 like mad

OregonReefer · 07/27/2011, 11:29 PM

So I'm ready to go wet with my new setup and thought I better do my due diligence and test my rock to see if it's going to leach PO4.

Sure enough it is.... in a bad way.

I placed about a pound in about a 2 quarts of RO/DI last night. Testing tonight, about 24 hours later, I'm getting a PO4 reading of .41 from the test container.

I did "cook" the rock for about a week in RO water with a Mag 12 for circulation and it looks like that didn't do the trick.

I'm doing my leak test this weekend and would like to go live by next weekend.

Any ideas on how to bleed the PO4 out quickly so as not to delay my startup?

reefmanmatt · 07/28/2011, 09:36 AM

did you use salt water ? if not i would just put it all in as small of a bin as you can , change out the fresh as many times as you can over the next few days then test it again . an extra pump , some hose and chemi mat , poly filter pads , or a product like phospure in a media bag (if you can skim the container) will be the easiest other than changing out water i would think

JG1 · 07/28/2011, 09:51 AM

It can leach for a while...my dry rock took 6 months

solitude127 · 07/28/2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG1

It can leach for a while...my dry rock took 6 months

+1. I used BRS Pukani rock and I cured it for about 4 weeks (so I thought) before I setup my DT. After setting up the DT, I fought Hair algae for about 6 months. All my PO4 test measured less than .03 but I have a feeling that the dried rock was still releasing PO4.

sanchoy · 07/28/2011, 11:42 AM

I have concluded that nothing beats pure live rock. Dried dead rock takes too long to cure and has the potential to leach mad phosphates back into your system. The only downside of live rock is its a tad expensive with the potential of introducing baddies into your tank. To me personally it outweighs the long wait of dead rock.

Felixc395 · 07/28/2011, 12:21 PM

How do you stop the phosphates from leaking, just wait half a year? That seems a little annoying.

JG1 · 07/28/2011, 12:30 PM

Forget about using GFO, you'll just burn through it every few days.

Best thing to do, get a little chaeto and let that soak up the PO4 as the rock releases it. Hopefully it will out compete the micro algae in the DT until the rock stops leaching.

Felixc395 · 07/28/2011, 12:41 PM

Hmmm, thanks! I wish I would have known that before I bought dry rock!

JG1 · 07/28/2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felixc395

Hmmm, thanks! I wish I would have known that before I bought dry rock!

Yeah, me too lol

tmz · 07/28/2011, 01:28 PM

I'd put it in salt water and treat it with lanthanum chloride. It will precipitate any leaching phosphate and dosing it will keep the PO4 in the water very low ,the precipitant can be swished off before the rock is place in the display. I've had rock that leach lot's of phosphate stop leaching in 2 weeks this way without water changes or more costly gfo.. There are comercial hobby liquid PO4 removers that are lanthanum chloride and water but I use Seaklear a pool product which is much cheaper.

Felixc395 · 07/28/2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmz

I'd put it in salt water and treat it with lanthanum chloride. It will precipitate any leaching phosphate and dosing it will keep the PO4 in the water very low ,the precipitant can be swished off before the rock is place in the display. I've had rock that leach lot's of phosphate stop leaching in 2 weeks this way without water changes or more costly gfo.. There are comercial hobby liquid PO4 removers that are lanthanum chloride and water but I use Seaklear a pool product which is much cheaper.

What happens if the rock is already in your display tank? Can you still use this method?

bertoni · 07/28/2011, 08:54 PM

You can, but it's best to drip the lanthanum chloride into a filter sock or something equivalent, to capture as much of the precipitate as possible.

tmz · 07/28/2011, 11:46 PM

Some commercial hobby products will tell you it's ok to dose directly to the tank and some do so. It's not safe.ime The precipitant is harmful to animals in the tank. So dripping it through a fine filter is best if you use it in the aquarium. Here is a link with lot's of detail:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...thanum+cloride

snorvich · 07/29/2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmz

I'd put it in salt water and treat it with lanthanum chloride. It will precipitate any leaching phosphate and dosing it will keep the PO4 in the water very low ,the precipitant can be swished off before the rock is place in the display. I've had rock that leach lot's of phosphate stop leaching in 2 weeks this way without water changes or more costly gfo.. There are comercial hobby liquid PO4 removers that are lanthanum chloride and water but I use Seaklear a pool product which is much cheaper.

Absolutely superb advice. Many, many people have the problem and do not even know it.

indatank · 07/29/2011, 12:23 PM

Same problem here. Great info

tmz · 07/29/2011, 12:31 PM

Glad you like it.

pciscott · 07/29/2011, 01:42 PM

I have had similar problems and dry rock must be cured. Lanthanum is a great product to speed up the process as stated above. I added 50 lbs of Marco Rock into a established tank and within a few weeks had a algae bloom that took out many corals yet my phosphates were testing at .03 which should not grow algae. Pulled a piece of the Marco Rock through it in a bucket over night and the P04 was at .19

What this means when you are reading your P04 levels in your water column you are getting a false reading because the Algae in your tank is consuming the P04.

Put the same rock in a bin with no light and you will see high Phosphates in the water column because nothing is using the P04.

Lanthanum in a Reef Tank can be dangerous, but I see no problem using it in a curing bin. Marine Depot carries a product that works very well that is a concentration of Lanthanum.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Aqua_Visi...ADSAPR-vi.html

I would still run GFO and as stated above you will burn through it weekly, but you will know true readings of P04 if you keep it covered.

For those of you fighting Algae blooms and used dry rock change your GFO weekly and A trick I learned from a speaker at our club meeting from Aqua Vision. Put 6 drops of the product above in every 10 gallons of top off water and this will add the Lanthanum at a safe rate for a reef tank. Run the top off water into a sock so no precipitate ends up in the tank.

When the Algae is gone you will be through this nasty cycle.

Dry Rock is still a better way to go because some pests are worse than dealing with the P04 leaching for a few months.

Good luck.

Lynnmw1208 · 07/29/2011, 01:46 PM

I agree it leeches a lot of phosphate. I used it to cycle my tank basically lol. the GFO helped greatly.

bertoni · 07/29/2011, 02:11 PM

That's interesting. Is this a dry rock product?

OregonReefer · 07/29/2011, 05:22 PM

I picked up some SeaKlear today and will start dripping tonight.

Let The Testing Begin!!

jason2459 · 07/29/2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

That's interesting. Is this a dry rock product?

I assume its the BRS pukani dry rock. I got the same stuff for my mantis tank and it also leached PO4 but was manageable as I cycled with lights out and only got a slight algae bloom once lights went on.

James983 · 07/29/2011, 05:45 PM

It took mine 7 months before I could get a handle on the hair algea. The Pukani is nice rock but it has to be cured before use.

mooch1982 · 07/29/2011, 06:00 PM

Damn that sucks. Marco rocks did not leach any phosphates what so ever.

Lynnmw1208 · 07/29/2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooch1982

Damn that sucks. Marco rocks did not leach any phosphates what so ever.

It's worth it because the pukani is much more porous than marco rocks or the ecorocks from BRS.

tmz · 07/29/2011, 09:52 PM

The eco rocks I had leached.

07/27/2011, 11:29 PM	#1
OregonReefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 629	Pukani Rock leacing PO4 like mad So I'm ready to go wet with my new setup and thought I better do my due diligence and test my rock to see if it's going to leach PO4. Sure enough it is.... in a bad way. I placed about a pound in about a 2 quarts of RO/DI last night. Testing tonight, about 24 hours later, I'm getting a PO4 reading of .41 from the test container. I did "cook" the rock for about a week in RO water with a Mag 12 for circulation and it looks like that didn't do the trick. I'm doing my leak test this weekend and would like to go live by next weekend. Any ideas on how to bleed the PO4 out quickly so as not to delay my startup? __________________ 120g drilled, 30G sump, 20g Fuge, RO NWB200 Skimmer, Glass Holes Overflow, mag 12.0 return, Reeflo Dart closed loop, 6-bulb Sunlight Tek

07/28/2011, 09:51 AM	#3
JG1 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sicklerville, NJ 08081 Posts: 2,256	It can leach for a while...my dry rock took 6 months __________________ -John Current Tank Info: 100g Rimless Starphire

07/28/2011, 11:42 AM	#5
sanchoy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Close to the ocean Posts: 1,026	I have concluded that nothing beats pure live rock. Dried dead rock takes too long to cure and has the potential to leach mad phosphates back into your system. The only downside of live rock is its a tad expensive with the potential of introducing baddies into your tank. To me personally it outweighs the long wait of dead rock. __________________ 250 gallon.. tangs are the best.. the po po is not. Current Tank Info: 250 reef

07/28/2011, 12:30 PM	#7
JG1 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sicklerville, NJ 08081 Posts: 2,256	Forget about using GFO, you'll just burn through it every few days. Best thing to do, get a little chaeto and let that soak up the PO4 as the rock releases it. Hopefully it will out compete the micro algae in the DT until the rock stops leaching. __________________ -John Current Tank Info: 100g Rimless Starphire

07/28/2011, 01:28 PM	#10
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I'd put it in salt water and treat it with lanthanum chloride. It will precipitate any leaching phosphate and dosing it will keep the PO4 in the water very low ,the precipitant can be swished off before the rock is place in the display. I've had rock that leach lot's of phosphate stop leaching in 2 weeks this way without water changes or more costly gfo.. There are comercial hobby liquid PO4 removers that are lanthanum chloride and water but I use Seaklear a pool product which is much cheaper. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

07/28/2011, 09:36 AM	#2
reefmanmatt Registered Member. Join Date: May 2011 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 396	did you use salt water ? if not i would just put it all in as small of a bin as you can , change out the fresh as many times as you can over the next few days then test it again . an extra pump , some hose and chemi mat , poly filter pads , or a product like phospure in a media bag (if you can skim the container) will be the easiest other than changing out water i would think

07/28/2011, 12:21 PM	#6
Felixc395 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,612	How do you stop the phosphates from leaking, just wait half a year? That seems a little annoying.

07/28/2011, 12:41 PM	#8
Felixc395 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,612	Hmmm, thanks! I wish I would have known that before I bought dry rock!

07/28/2011, 08:54 PM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	You can, but it's best to drip the lanthanum chloride into a filter sock or something equivalent, to capture as much of the precipitate as possible. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

07/28/2011, 11:46 PM	#13
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Some commercial hobby products will tell you it's ok to dose directly to the tank and some do so. It's not safe.ime The precipitant is harmful to animals in the tank. So dripping it through a fine filter is best if you use it in the aquarium. Here is a link with lot's of detail: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...thanum+cloride __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

07/29/2011, 12:23 PM	#15
indatank Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 51	Same problem here. Great info

07/29/2011, 12:31 PM	#16
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Glad you like it. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

07/29/2011, 01:42 PM	#17
pciscott Pirates Cove Reef Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cypress, CA Posts: 2,582	I have had similar problems and dry rock must be cured. Lanthanum is a great product to speed up the process as stated above. I added 50 lbs of Marco Rock into a established tank and within a few weeks had a algae bloom that took out many corals yet my phosphates were testing at .03 which should not grow algae. Pulled a piece of the Marco Rock through it in a bucket over night and the P04 was at .19 What this means when you are reading your P04 levels in your water column you are getting a false reading because the Algae in your tank is consuming the P04. Put the same rock in a bin with no light and you will see high Phosphates in the water column because nothing is using the P04. Lanthanum in a Reef Tank can be dangerous, but I see no problem using it in a curing bin. Marine Depot carries a product that works very well that is a concentration of Lanthanum. http://www.marinedepot.com/Aqua_Visi...ADSAPR-vi.html I would still run GFO and as stated above you will burn through it weekly, but you will know true readings of P04 if you keep it covered. For those of you fighting Algae blooms and used dry rock change your GFO weekly and A trick I learned from a speaker at our club meeting from Aqua Vision. Put 6 drops of the product above in every 10 gallons of top off water and this will add the Lanthanum at a safe rate for a reef tank. Run the top off water into a sock so no precipitate ends up in the tank. When the Algae is gone you will be through this nasty cycle. Dry Rock is still a better way to go because some pests are worse than dealing with the P04 leaching for a few months. Good luck. __________________ Scott Steinberger SCMAS/SCRK/MASNA member There is more than One Way to skin a Reef! Current Tank Info: Pirates Cove 400 Gallon Peninsula with 10 Ecotech Gen 4 Pro Lights, SPS heavy mixed Reef, Tank Controlled by Apex back up monitoring by Profilux, Tropic Marin Pro Salt, Brightwell Suplements and Bio Bricks, Way too many Fish! Keep it simple!

07/29/2011, 01:46 PM	#18
Lynnmw1208 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Brunswick, Ohio Posts: 3,306	I agree it leeches a lot of phosphate. I used it to cycle my tank basically lol. the GFO helped greatly. __________________ equipment: Eshopps psk-200 skimmer, Mag 12 pump, 30gal sump, 2x 300w Finnex heaters, glass-holes 1500gph overflow kit with 3/4" return kits, 72" 8x36w t-5 AquaticLife light, 66lbs of LR, 150lbs of tropic eden reeflakes, 2 Koralia Evo 1400, JBJ ATO, BRS dual GFO/carbon reactors, Hydor smartwave Current Tank Info: 125gallon

07/29/2011, 02:11 PM	#19
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	That's interesting. Is this a dry rock product? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

07/29/2011, 05:22 PM	#20
OregonReefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 629	I picked up some SeaKlear today and will start dripping tonight. Let The Testing Begin!! __________________ 120g drilled, 30G sump, 20g Fuge, RO NWB200 Skimmer, Glass Holes Overflow, mag 12.0 return, Reeflo Dart closed loop, 6-bulb Sunlight Tek

07/29/2011, 05:45 PM	#22
James983 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,223	It took mine 7 months before I could get a handle on the hair algea. The Pukani is nice rock but it has to be cured before use.

07/29/2011, 06:00 PM	#23
mooch1982 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 435	Damn that sucks. Marco rocks did not leach any phosphates what so ever.

07/29/2011, 09:52 PM	#25
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	The eco rocks I had leached. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

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