west 7 epoxy vs cheaper all purpes fiberglass resin

Kevin012 · 08/30/2011, 04:12 PM

ok so I have read a fair bit about plywood tanks, and some use paint + west 7 ore other use only west 7.

now I dont know, but wonder.

the local fiberglass outfit sells general purples waxed resin (also used for decking and so),

now :
A- I wonder would this be ok to use for making a sump, display tank ?, is not why not
B – if west 7 needs to be applied, cant you not first build up layers with resin and maybe a mesh ore 2 in there out of the general resin, and kind of paint it off with the west 7.

overall the consideration is that west 7, when needed for a300+ gallon tank (with a thickness of 1/5 inch ore so, will also run in the $$$$, while a 5 gal drum of the general resin is lie only $140 ore so.

not to cut corners, but wonder what the difference would be on the end resold, other than the price tag.

so whome build a plywood tank out of general resin, ore what resin did you use ?

on the end' I'm thinking off a 450 gallont tank within now and 9 months

ohh. forgot to ask, do you also fluch the new made tank several times, or off gass the resin for a spesific time ?

BeanAnimal · 08/30/2011, 05:56 PM

Polyester resin is not suitable, you need to be using epoxy. It does not have to be West systems, but it needs to be a quality epoxy. (HINT: there are not that many manufacturers, just many who rebrand formulations from national blenders).

NanoReefWanabe · 08/30/2011, 07:48 PM

short of having to sand off the amine blush every layer what makes it not suitable...does it absorb water? i realize it is not quite as strong as an epoxy, but strength is not the issue with ply tanks anyway it is water tightness...and most people sweet water the inside and out after eopxying anyway...i am now curious too...

BeanAnimal · 08/31/2011, 06:51 AM

Polyester absorbs water

kcinnick · 08/31/2011, 07:57 AM

just use uscomposites epoxy resin....

West is not a high quality resin... just a high priced one

There are better resins than uscomposites, however uscomposites will be fine for what you are doing. (it is suitable for making a boat, so it will work in reverse)

If you want some really good resin, which is over the top for your application, get some system three silvertip.

Sharpie_ · 08/31/2011, 08:19 AM

I had looked at building a plywood tank for a long time, then reconsidered when I discovered the huge price tag. You should take a serious look at building a box and using a 45mil EPDM liner, it will typically run you anywhere from .75-.99$ a square foot. It's what we use at work to display our water lillies, and the liner is good for 20 years usually. I know a local(ish) reefer that made a large sump using this method to hold his sharks as well.

Kevin012 · 09/01/2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcinnick

just use uscomposites epoxy resin....

West is not a high quality resin... just a high priced one

There are better resins than uscomposites, however uscomposites will be fine for what you are doing. (it is suitable for making a boat, so it will work in reverse)

If you want some really good resin, which is over the top for your application, get some system three silvertip.

so when using epoxy, do I also ad a felt of fiberglass in it (prefer to do it entirly, in stead of only the corners.

and than how manny layers / thickness (1/6 ore 1/7 inch)

Kevin012 · 10/03/2011, 08:50 AM

ok, getting started with a frag tank / sump, where I can put everything in, as we soled the house, and we are prepairing for the move.\

in order to keep stuf alive, I will build the sump for my future new tank, and put what I have all in there, and than in a few months, i will build the main display tank.

any how, so the size I'm going for is 6 feet long x 3 1/2 feet and 1 feet tall, in this tank I will put everything in rows.

so back to wat I need, and keeping in mind that I will use the info also for my main tank, that will be about 5 1/2 x 5 1/2 feet sq.

- I go for west system
- how thick ? would 1/6 inch do, ore would less be ok, ore do I need more
- I will ad 1 layer of fiberglass to be shore
- do I go for the west system 5:1 mix kits, ore the 3:1 mix kits

the screw hols, do I gust putty them ?

when adding layers of west, I read that when it is not fullt hardened, like still a bit tacky, I ad a new layer, and than when one side is dun, I turn it all, san the corner a bit and add layerson that side.

ore

do I ad one layer, flip it do the other and flip it, and so on, but than once I get back to the first one, it is fullly hardened

anny how, some guydance ore tips ?

der_wille_zur_macht · 10/03/2011, 09:18 AM

One thing that is important to recognize is that there are many suitable ways to waterproof a wood box. And of course some unsuitable ways, too. Your choice will depend on your priorities. Luckily there are lots of examples of successful tanks out there these days so it is easy to find examples to copy.

I used the slow hardener with the thin resin from uscomposites on my 360 and sump. It does not blush and has a long working time. Through my sump and tank, the thickness varies, but generally it is between 1/8 and 1/4 inches and was poured in 3 or 4 layers. I used no fiberglass or other products, just straight epoxy on the wood. 8.5 gallons was around $300 and was just right for my tank and sump with probably a half gallon left over. I dyed the last coat and did not topcoat with sweetwater or any other paint. I have a build thread on this forum with lots of details if you want more info.

Kevin012 · 10/05/2011, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

One thing that is important to recognize is that there are many suitable ways to waterproof a wood box. And of course some unsuitable ways, too. Your choice will depend on your priorities. Luckily there are lots of examples of successful tanks out there these days so it is easy to find examples to copy.

I used the slow hardener with the thin resin from uscomposites on my 360 and sump. It does not blush and has a long working time. Through my sump and tank, the thickness varies, but generally it is between 1/8 and 1/4 inches and was poured in 3 or 4 layers. I used no fiberglass or other products, just straight epoxy on the wood. 8.5 gallons was around $300 and was just right for my tank and sump with probably a half gallon left over. I dyed the last coat and did not topcoat with sweetwater or any other paint. I have a build thread on this forum with lots of details if you want more info.

I checked with US comp. and in deed interesting, thy also have west, it is mind blowing if you se what thy ask for it, and what several local company's ask for it (I'm in Canada, on the west coast) in the west system, there is $ 200 differance in only theresin for 10 gal, and $100 on one gallon of 206 hardner.

so whatever it will be, ip pays off to shop on your side at all times

it is comforting to read yuo build with US comp., as I'm un familiar with plywood tanks (I worked with polyester before) and 9 out of 10 times everyone uses west system. but it shows in this case that that is not nececerry at all, as I now learn from several, that the other brands are as good as the one with the $$$$$

thanks for all your input, if you have more, gust put it in here, I will put in the progress once I get the resin

08/30/2011, 04:12 PM	#1
Kevin012 Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: victoria BC,Canada Posts: 49	west 7 epoxy vs cheaper all purpes fiberglass resin ok so I have read a fair bit about plywood tanks, and some use paint + west 7 ore other use only west 7. now I dont know, but wonder. the local fiberglass outfit sells general purples waxed resin (also used for decking and so), now : A- I wonder would this be ok to use for making a sump, display tank ?, is not why not B – if west 7 needs to be applied, cant you not first build up layers with resin and maybe a mesh ore 2 in there out of the general resin, and kind of paint it off with the west 7. overall the consideration is that west 7, when needed for a300+ gallon tank (with a thickness of 1/5 inch ore so, will also run in the $$$$, while a 5 gal drum of the general resin is lie only $140 ore so. not to cut corners, but wonder what the difference would be on the end resold, other than the price tag. so whome build a plywood tank out of general resin, ore what resin did you use ? on the end' I'm thinking off a 450 gallont tank within now and 9 months ohh. forgot to ask, do you also fluch the new made tank several times, or off gass the resin for a spesific time ? __________________ 350gal + sump (65 gal) + 90 gal frag T - 72 inch DIY skimmer - 2x 150W HQI + 250W HQI + 200W T5 and 150W of LED's Current Tank Info: 400 gal + sump - 72 inch DIY skimmer - 4x 150W HQI + 200W T5

08/31/2011, 08:19 AM	#6
Sharpie_ Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Southern Ontario, Canada Posts: 363	I had looked at building a plywood tank for a long time, then reconsidered when I discovered the huge price tag. You should take a serious look at building a box and using a 45mil EPDM liner, it will typically run you anywhere from .75-.99$ a square foot. It's what we use at work to display our water lillies, and the liner is good for 20 years usually. I know a local(ish) reefer that made a large sump using this method to hold his sharks as well. __________________ Getting wet since '07. Current Tank Info: 120 Display, 65 Sump, 50 Refugiem, DT is holding 135 lbs of aquarcaultured rock. 400W MH 14,000K XM bulb provides light for a mixed reef.

10/03/2011, 08:50 AM	#8
Kevin012 Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: victoria BC,Canada Posts: 49	ok, getting started with a frag tank / sump, where I can put everything in, as we soled the house, and we are prepairing for the move.\ in order to keep stuf alive, I will build the sump for my future new tank, and put what I have all in there, and than in a few months, i will build the main display tank. any how, so the size I'm going for is 6 feet long x 3 1/2 feet and 1 feet tall, in this tank I will put everything in rows. so back to wat I need, and keeping in mind that I will use the info also for my main tank, that will be about 5 1/2 x 5 1/2 feet sq. - I go for west system - how thick ? would 1/6 inch do, ore would less be ok, ore do I need more - I will ad 1 layer of fiberglass to be shore - do I go for the west system 5:1 mix kits, ore the 3:1 mix kits the screw hols, do I gust putty them ? when adding layers of west, I read that when it is not fullt hardened, like still a bit tacky, I ad a new layer, and than when one side is dun, I turn it all, san the corner a bit and add layerson that side. ore do I ad one layer, flip it do the other and flip it, and so on, but than once I get back to the first one, it is fullly hardened anny how, some guydance ore tips ? __________________ 350gal + sump (65 gal) + 90 gal frag T - 72 inch DIY skimmer - 2x 150W HQI + 250W HQI + 200W T5 and 150W of LED's Current Tank Info: 400 gal + sump - 72 inch DIY skimmer - 4x 150W HQI + 200W T5

10/03/2011, 09:18 AM	#9
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	One thing that is important to recognize is that there are many suitable ways to waterproof a wood box. And of course some unsuitable ways, too. Your choice will depend on your priorities. Luckily there are lots of examples of successful tanks out there these days so it is easy to find examples to copy. I used the slow hardener with the thin resin from uscomposites on my 360 and sump. It does not blush and has a long working time. Through my sump and tank, the thickness varies, but generally it is between 1/8 and 1/4 inches and was poured in 3 or 4 layers. I used no fiberglass or other products, just straight epoxy on the wood. 8.5 gallons was around $300 and was just right for my tank and sump with probably a half gallon left over. I dyed the last coat and did not topcoat with sweetwater or any other paint. I have a build thread on this forum with lots of details if you want more info. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

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08/30/2011, 05:56 PM	#2
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Polyester resin is not suitable, you need to be using epoxy. It does not have to be West systems, but it needs to be a quality epoxy. (HINT: there are not that many manufacturers, just many who rebrand formulations from national blenders).

08/30/2011, 07:48 PM	#3
NanoReefWanabe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,639	short of having to sand off the amine blush every layer what makes it not suitable...does it absorb water? i realize it is not quite as strong as an epoxy, but strength is not the issue with ply tanks anyway it is water tightness...and most people sweet water the inside and out after eopxying anyway...i am now curious too...

08/31/2011, 06:51 AM	#4
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Polyester absorbs water

08/31/2011, 07:57 AM	#5
kcinnick Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 200	just use uscomposites epoxy resin.... West is not a high quality resin... just a high priced one There are better resins than uscomposites, however uscomposites will be fine for what you are doing. (it is suitable for making a boat, so it will work in reverse) If you want some really good resin, which is over the top for your application, get some system three silvertip.