What to do with several tons of aragonite <200 microns

[WestMariculture]

My company (West Mariculture) washes, grades, and packages oolitic aragonite for sale. During this process, all material less than 200 microns is rinsed out. I currently have at least one ton of this fine material, possibly more. It looks a lot like several of the powdered aragonite products being sold for dosing reef tanks. I'm not sure that's very effective, but haven't spent a lot of time investigating it.

What do you think? Any suggestions on using the material?

[Crusinjimbo]

Possibly bonding it with a reef safe agent to make reef "live rock"??

[fishgate]

No ideas, but maybe someone will see your post and make a PM offer to you to buy some?

[WestMariculture]

It's too fine for standard aragocrete. It makes the mix very crumbly and unstable.

If someone wants some, let me know. Pay for shipping and it's yours. I would just like to see someone using it.

[DHyslop]

It's not at all effective, just another of the many snake oils in the industry.

[WestMariculture]

Snake oil?!? In this industry? Whaaaaa?!?

Yeah, figured as much. If the sand really dissolved that quickly, it would be almost pointless to use as a sand bed.

[WestMariculture]

I did get a PM, but can't respond due to site restrictions until I have enough posts.

[aandfsoccr04]

ten posts before you can send a private message.

[WestMariculture]

Um, yeah...that's what it said. (that's 5 )

[GrimReefer555]

They buying it? If so, what are they going to do with it? If you guys don't mind me being nosy, I mean curious...

[WestMariculture]

That's what I'm hoping to figure out. Too much "waste" material to toss. Aragonite is such an important part of the reef hobby, it just seems wrong to discard tons of it, even if it is too fine to use as a substrate.

[GrimReefer555]

I would think it would make a great deep sand bed in a refugium, maybe with a layer of larger sand on top. The surface area on that sand must be huge...

[WestMariculture]

Surface area is huge, but I think you would end up with it packing down too much. There are two reasons it's graded with the smallest size at 200microns:

1. Smaller grain size will get blown around too much

2. Smaller particles will clog the sand bed. Deep sand beds aren't just about having a sand bed that's X inches deep. It's about having a sand bed with the proper sand (grain size and shape...oolitic to be accurate) to allow for water to reach deep enough into the bed for nitrification, and allow for small amounts of denitrification lower in the bed. If the sand bed is clogged, by either small grains of sand or detritus, it fails to allow proper water flow and you end up with anoxic conditions that will be very detrimental.

It may be useful as an additive to a mud substrate in a refugium. Possibly add a 50/50 mix of aragonite fines and mud. The sand is high in calcium and minerals and would significantly reduce the amount of mud needed, since it's so darn expensive.

[Reefmedic79]

Calcium Reactor? Fluidized sandbed? couple possible uses I can think of.

[Borchers]

I say Refugium Mud as well. Mix it 50/50 with larger agronite. Then add to the fuge. Could also be mixed with epoxy and used to make false sand bottoms and walls. Seen it before. Looks nice but once it's in it's in!

[GrimReefer555]

Originally Posted by WestMariculture

Surface area is huge, but I think you would end up with it packing down too much. There are two reasons it's graded with the smallest size at 200microns:

1. Smaller grain size will get blown around too much

2. Smaller particles will clog the sand bed. Deep sand beds aren't just about having a sand bed that's X inches deep. It's about having a sand bed with the proper sand (grain size and shape...oolitic to be accurate) to allow for water to reach deep enough into the bed for nitrification, and allow for small amounts of denitrification lower in the bed. If the sand bed is clogged, by either small grains of sand or detritus, it fails to allow proper water flow and you end up with anoxic conditions that will be very detrimental.

It may be useful as an additive to a mud substrate in a refugium. Possibly add a 50/50 mix of aragonite fines and mud. The sand is high in calcium and minerals and would significantly reduce the amount of mud needed, since it's so darn expensive.

Makes sense, I'm sure there is a very fine balance of flow verse surface area. Now that we found the mud option, you just have to start producing and market your new Mariculture Miracle Mud (tm pending).

[slavver01]

I was gonna also say the sand covered with epoxy option. I look ve the look on f fine sand but it blows around way too much

[WestMariculture]

This sand is ultra-fine. You know the silt that is rinsed out of aragonite sand before you put it in your tank? This is THAT stuff...the fine silt.

It's too fine for a calcium reactor, unless you had the flow very low. Same for a fluidized bed.

I've read that aragonite is good for plants (terrestrial, not necessarily aquatic), because it provide calcium and trace elements in a highly soluble source without the magnesium problems associated with the standard calcium source of limestone. Anyone want some to try on their garden or plants maybe? I would bet tomatoes would benefit from the extra calcium.

[uny2bld]

Originally Posted by WestMariculture

Surface area is huge, but I think you would end up with it packing down too much. There are two reasons it's graded with the smallest size at 200microns:

1. Smaller grain size will get blown around too much

2. Smaller particles will clog the sand bed. Deep sand beds aren't just about having a sand bed that's X inches deep. It's about having a sand bed with the proper sand (grain size and shape...oolitic to be accurate) to allow for water to reach deep enough into the bed for nitrification, and allow for small amounts of denitrification lower in the bed. If the sand bed is clogged, by either small grains of sand or detritus, it fails to allow proper water flow and you end up with anoxic conditions that will be very detrimental.

It may be useful as an additive to a mud substrate in a refugium. Possibly add a 50/50 mix of aragonite fines and mud. The sand is high in calcium and minerals and would significantly reduce the amount of mud needed, since it's so darn expensive.

Aha! I was wondering why I didn't get a pm back. I really like what I am seeing here. I was asking for some bc I also don't like to see anything go to waste and I appreciate seeing a company concerned with this. I also like to see good info (especially your note about grain size in dsbs) This is something I talk about frequently with my local reef club.

I actually wanted to use it for a number of applications that you and others have already listed including the notes about terrestrial gardening.

After I saw your post, I called my local greenhouse and spoke with the owner who is a botanist. I have been doing business with him for two decades and he's super knowledgeable. He said that it would be great for mixing in with soil for certain plants (I forget which ones bc I tend to talk to him for a long time and lose track of the topic - lol)

I also wanted to try and use it for a fluidized bed filter. I think I can design one that it would work well in. And lastly, I thought it would be great for an additive to a dsb although the ratio Dr Shimek suggests this grain size in very small proportion to the rest of the dsb - I think I will allow for some "wiggle room though

I have a feeling that up to 15% of this would be a good experiment for a dsb. I think that in Dr Shimek's original research, this size wasn't readily available so he may not have had the opportunity to test it's results.

Thanks again for the offer on just shipping. Let me know how much it will cost because I'd love to try some!

[username in use]

Research a way to compress it into solid pellets. Then you could use the solid pellets in calcium reactors.

[TheAquatect]

You could make some rock wall molds and mix the stuff with epoxy to produce some pretty solid rock walls in standard sizes. Heck if you design it right they could be modular to fit various tank sizes. The fine sand should produce a smooth texture that you can modify with nooks and crannies via the mold or larger grade sand.

I've done basic versions of this just digging a hole in the sand and lining it with epoxy for reptile tanks but a nice mold, taken from reef rock for example, might be pretty sweet.

[WestMariculture]

Fertrell is a supplier of organic and natural products for soil and animals. They sell raw aragonite as a soil amendment and for feed additives for poultry. Here's a link: http://www.fertrell.com/aragonite.htm

The aragonite they sell is raw, unwashed sand. The waste material I have is just the fine particles rinsed from the raw material. I would think it would actually act better than raw aragonite for soil because of the grain size and additional surface area.

A local fresh vegetables producer is testing some on plants for me. He's doing a test with fertilizer, fertilizer and aragonite, and just aragonite. I'll have a better idea of how it works after the growing season.

The recommended usage for aragonite on soil is to use it as a top dressing. In this capacity it does the following:
1. Helps retain soil nitrogen
2. Creates additional nitrogen as bacteria colonize the aragonite, run through their lifecycle, and die, leaving nitrogen behind.
3. The high solubility of aragonite, breaking down at a lower pH than calcite, provides a ready supply of calcium and numerous trace elements for plants. With calcite, the magnesium gets taken up by the plants and blocks both calcium and other nutrients from being absorbed.

I know this is a bit off-topic on a reef forum, but certainly of interest to those that may want some material for their garden.

As for getting some, send payment via PayPal to ebay@westmariculture. Medium flat rate: $11.30. Large flat rate: $15.30. That's exactly what shipping will cost.

For anyone reading this post that may be concerned I'm violating any "selling" rules, please take into account that this isn't a "sale", but rather an offer for free product.

I've looked into pelletizing the aragonite and I haven't found a solution. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. I have to be careful if using heat and/or pressure to create pellets because aragonite can easily change state to calcite with heat, pressure, or time. This is the reason some suppliers actually sell calcite under the name aragonite because they're either unaware that it has changed state or have chosen to ignore that fact. There are areas in the Bahamas that have nothing but calcite because it's aged long enough. It looks like aragonite, being oolitic and in the ocean, but that doesn't mean it is. The only way to tell for sure is with a Feigl's Solution test.

[WestMariculture]

The fresh vegetable grower is also testing some with compost. Due to the high porosity and ability to colonize bacteria, mixing some with compost may help break it down faster and provide higher calcium, other nutrients, and maybe higher nitrogen. Once again, I won't have an idea on this until later in the season.

[Sugar Magnolia]

I was going to suggest gardening as well. It is pretty beneficial in the garden.

You won't be able to use this forum to sell your leftover sand as it's against the UA. You'll need 50 posts and 90 days membership in order to sell in our classified forum.

[WestMariculture]

I'm not selling it. I'm giving it away. I just ask for shipping costs. If it's against the rules to do that, I'll modify the post.