Bayer dip for clams

hart24601 · 03/30/2015, 12:03 AM

I'm putting this out there just for information sake. I realize I will probably get horribly flamed, but maybe this could eventually become accepted, after all bayer with sps seemed crazy too.

So as the title says I have been wondering about bayer (the one used for coral) and clams. I read a post on another forum saying they dipped their clams on advise from and very experenenced reefer with before and after photos. There is also a blog entry about it out there. I thought it was crazy. But looking into it bayer is a neurotoxin, coral have very simple nervous systems and that's why it works. Clams also have a simple nervous system with no brain. So I thought maybe it could be possible.

So I left it at that for a while. Eventually my LFS had some really bad looking maximas come in, I watched them for a couple weeks, their system has aptasia and bubble algea so along with sickly looking mantle extension they were covered in those, really making them unsellable. So I snagged 5" maximas up below their cost and thought I might try it. My process was the same for all clams, have 2 small containers and a large one the small buckets fit inside of. With water and a heater in the larger container I could keep the smaller containers at temp. I put the maxima and bayer into small bucket of tank water for a specified time, then transferred clam to new small bucket of clean tank water. Repeated that 2 more times to remove the bayer adding a small bag of carbon I tossed when done. I also put over the large container a spare reefbreeder light so they would keep open.

1st maxima I put enough bayer in the ~2 quarts of water to make it opaque. Let it sit around 15 min before transferring to new container of clean water described above. The clam showed no distress and was open the entire time once it was in the clean water. 2nd clam I added only about 10ml bayer, just a faint tint to the water and let it sit for about 30 min. The clam was open normally for the duration of the dip and didn't even cough. Looked exactly as it did in tank, which I couldn't see on the 1st clam due to how dark the treatment was. I then proceeded with transferring into clean water as before.

After scrubbing the shells well, I later traded both clams back to the store a few weeks later. Mantles extended great and they looked fantastic. There were lots of worms and "critters" on the bottom of the container when done. I am not saying the dip helped them, maybe good lights and a better system did that, but the dip sure didn't kill them. I have since dipped 2 other large maximas and none showed any distress and have been living ever since.

I am not suggesting ANYONE do this. I don't want to get blamed of people lose a clam, and if a clam isn't doing well before treatment it would likely die anyway, and I don't want that on me. I am only reporting my experimentation with it, perhaps in time others will try it out and it could become a valuable treatment. Or not. So just remember that before you go wild on me for posting this...

Dapg8gt · 03/30/2015, 12:15 AM

Interesting to hear this, I for one won't flame you people have to start somewhere or else we would be nowhere in this hobby.. Thanks for sharing subbed to see where this goes.

smtank · 03/30/2015, 06:51 AM

Interesting topic, thanks for sharing.

MondoBongo · 03/30/2015, 07:28 AM

so what would be the purpose of dipping them? general parasite removal?

i would assume the bayer would kill any pyramid snails that happened to be riding along.

did you see any noticeable difference in the kill rate of the two buckets, e.g. to 10ml vs the higher concentration, or do you feel that 10ml is sufficiently strong to do the job?

dips were done in saltwater i assume?

what kind of bayer?

this is certainly very interesting. i religiously dip all my corals on their way in to, and out of QT, it would be nice to have that extra line of defense with clams as well.

hart24601 · 03/30/2015, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MondoBongo

so what would be the purpose of dipping them? general parasite removal?

i would assume the bayer would kill any pyramid snails that happened to be riding along.

did you see any noticeable difference in the kill rate of the two buckets, e.g. to 10ml vs the higher concentration, or do you feel that 10ml is sufficiently strong to do the job?

dips were done in saltwater i assume?

what kind of bayer?

this is certainly very interesting. i religiously dip all my corals on their way in to, and out of QT, it would be nice to have that extra line of defense with clams as well.

Snail and general parasite removal like any crabs or flatworms like polyclad that might be doing some harm, there are a whole host of small organisms that seem to enjoy eating clams. I was really just curious how the clams would react.

The heavier solution I didn't look at very well since it was cloudy and just dumped it, I was a bit nervous. So I can't comment on the effectiveness of heavy vs light solution, but I personally like the lighter one since I can see the clam is open under the lights and allowing the bayer internally. I the other dips I have done have all been with the lower amount and even with scrubbing the shell there is plenty of "stuff" that falls off.

Yep, it's in saltwater for the dip. Tank water I removed that is temp matched and held there. The bayer is the normal stuff SPS tanks use. I think the bayer advanced complete insect killer that I had on hand for dipping corals.

MondoBongo · 03/30/2015, 10:38 AM

Very cool. Thank you for the details.

bruindave · 11/23/2015, 01:39 PM

anyone else try this out recently? hart how are your clams doing now?

Docdiggy · 11/25/2015, 03:39 PM

I've been wondering this topic for awhile now. I use bayer on everything, but I didn't use it on my clam. I just did I very thorough check for any pests.

MarsRover · 08/09/2016, 02:40 PM

Any update on this thread?

skanderson · 08/14/2016, 06:22 PM

why would the bayer dip kill pyramidal snails but not clams? they are both mollusks. I don't doubt that it will kill the same things it kills on corals, but I don't think it should be oversold as a treatment.

rpjaws74 · 08/14/2016, 07:53 PM

I agree does anyone know of any lasting effects that would be considered not normal?

ocean_at_home · 09/01/2016, 02:36 AM

Does yours color differently when viewed from the top?
I have one too. It looks an overall tan when viewed sideways but colors up a lot when viewed from the top. Like it has green, yellow and blue. Strange thing...

ocean_at_home · 09/01/2016, 02:38 AM

Sorry wrong window posted. Pls ignore.

chrisv · 09/05/2016, 03:33 PM

This would have been more useful had a negative control clam been included. A clam that got all the improvement in care with the exception of the dip. Hard to tell what helped these guys.

hart24601 · 09/09/2016, 11:13 AM

Clams are all still claming along fine.

This wasn't ment to be an experiment with controls or anything. Just sharing my experience.

Perhaps I shouldn't has listed snails as you're right they are all molluscs but I think snails have a more highly developed nervous system with a brain - perhaps the neurotoxin acts on them differently.

As I said, it's just for information purposes. I don't advocate anyone doing it.

03/30/2015, 12:03 AM	#1
hart24601 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 633	Bayer dip for clams I'm putting this out there just for information sake. I realize I will probably get horribly flamed, but maybe this could eventually become accepted, after all bayer with sps seemed crazy too. So as the title says I have been wondering about bayer (the one used for coral) and clams. I read a post on another forum saying they dipped their clams on advise from and very experenenced reefer with before and after photos. There is also a blog entry about it out there. I thought it was crazy. But looking into it bayer is a neurotoxin, coral have very simple nervous systems and that's why it works. Clams also have a simple nervous system with no brain. So I thought maybe it could be possible. So I left it at that for a while. Eventually my LFS had some really bad looking maximas come in, I watched them for a couple weeks, their system has aptasia and bubble algea so along with sickly looking mantle extension they were covered in those, really making them unsellable. So I snagged 5" maximas up below their cost and thought I might try it. My process was the same for all clams, have 2 small containers and a large one the small buckets fit inside of. With water and a heater in the larger container I could keep the smaller containers at temp. I put the maxima and bayer into small bucket of tank water for a specified time, then transferred clam to new small bucket of clean tank water. Repeated that 2 more times to remove the bayer adding a small bag of carbon I tossed when done. I also put over the large container a spare reefbreeder light so they would keep open. 1st maxima I put enough bayer in the ~2 quarts of water to make it opaque. Let it sit around 15 min before transferring to new container of clean water described above. The clam showed no distress and was open the entire time once it was in the clean water. 2nd clam I added only about 10ml bayer, just a faint tint to the water and let it sit for about 30 min. The clam was open normally for the duration of the dip and didn't even cough. Looked exactly as it did in tank, which I couldn't see on the 1st clam due to how dark the treatment was. I then proceeded with transferring into clean water as before. After scrubbing the shells well, I later traded both clams back to the store a few weeks later. Mantles extended great and they looked fantastic. There were lots of worms and "critters" on the bottom of the container when done. I am not saying the dip helped them, maybe good lights and a better system did that, but the dip sure didn't kill them. I have since dipped 2 other large maximas and none showed any distress and have been living ever since. I am not suggesting ANYONE do this. I don't want to get blamed of people lose a clam, and if a clam isn't doing well before treatment it would likely die anyway, and I don't want that on me. I am only reporting my experimentation with it, perhaps in time others will try it out and it could become a valuable treatment. Or not. So just remember that before you go wild on me for posting this...

03/30/2015, 12:15 AM	#2
Dapg8gt Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Pacifica Posts: 3,741	Interesting to hear this, I for one won't flame you people have to start somewhere or else we would be nowhere in this hobby.. Thanks for sharing subbed to see where this goes. __________________ 15 years in the hobby yet still learning every day. 280g radium lit sps flat living in my garage rent free. Current Tank Info: 105g SPS dominant euro braced powered by 4 ecotech pumps and lit by an ATI powermodule controlled by a reef angel =).

03/30/2015, 07:28 AM	#4
MondoBongo Obligate Feeder Obsessed Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 4,061	so what would be the purpose of dipping them? general parasite removal? i would assume the bayer would kill any pyramid snails that happened to be riding along. did you see any noticeable difference in the kill rate of the two buckets, e.g. to 10ml vs the higher concentration, or do you feel that 10ml is sufficiently strong to do the job? dips were done in saltwater i assume? what kind of bayer? this is certainly very interesting. i religiously dip all my corals on their way in to, and out of QT, it would be nice to have that extra line of defense with clams as well. __________________ [Citation Needed] "You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right" - xkcd Current Tank Info: A rectangular shaped money pit.

03/30/2015, 10:38 AM	#6
MondoBongo Obligate Feeder Obsessed Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 4,061	Very cool. Thank you for the details. __________________ [Citation Needed] "You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right" - xkcd Current Tank Info: A rectangular shaped money pit.

08/09/2016, 02:40 PM	#9
MarsRover Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: San Gabriels, California Posts: 84	Any update on this thread? __________________ Macintosh Classic 3Gal NanoReef - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24227283 ~6Gal Work tank - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2576949 Current Tank Info: ~3gal Macintosh Classic

03/30/2015, 06:51 AM	#3
smtank Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,204	Interesting topic, thanks for sharing.

11/23/2015, 01:39 PM	#7
bruindave Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 242	anyone else try this out recently? hart how are your clams doing now?

11/25/2015, 03:39 PM	#8
Docdiggy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Worcester MA Posts: 645	I've been wondering this topic for awhile now. I use bayer on everything, but I didn't use it on my clam. I just did I very thorough check for any pests.

08/14/2016, 06:22 PM	#10
skanderson Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: baraboo,wi Posts: 428	why would the bayer dip kill pyramidal snails but not clams? they are both mollusks. I don't doubt that it will kill the same things it kills on corals, but I don't think it should be oversold as a treatment.

08/14/2016, 07:53 PM	#11
rpjaws74 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 1,340	I agree does anyone know of any lasting effects that would be considered not normal? __________________ rpjaws Current Tank Info: 500 glln system/ Reef

09/01/2016, 02:36 AM	#12
ocean_at_home Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 5	Does yours color differently when viewed from the top? I have one too. It looks an overall tan when viewed sideways but colors up a lot when viewed from the top. Like it has green, yellow and blue. Strange thing...

09/01/2016, 02:38 AM	#13
ocean_at_home Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 5	Sorry wrong window posted. Pls ignore.

09/05/2016, 03:33 PM	#14
chrisv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 331	This would have been more useful had a negative control clam been included. A clam that got all the improvement in care with the exception of the dip. Hard to tell what helped these guys.

09/09/2016, 11:13 AM	#15
hart24601 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 633	Clams are all still claming along fine. This wasn't ment to be an experiment with controls or anything. Just sharing my experience. Perhaps I shouldn't has listed snails as you're right they are all molluscs but I think snails have a more highly developed nervous system with a brain - perhaps the neurotoxin acts on them differently. As I said, it's just for information purposes. I don't advocate anyone doing it.