Ats & iron.

NubbsJRN · 02/27/2018, 03:27 AM

For those of you running a ATS, how many of you dose iron and what is your target level for iron?

All of the arrivals I could find are over two years old and I want to make sure the thinking has not changed.

Thanks!

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Scrubber_steve · 02/27/2018, 03:39 AM

what is your purpose in adding iron?

homer1475 · 02/27/2018, 03:46 AM

Iron, no. and my ATS grows very well.

Subsea · 02/27/2018, 05:56 AM

https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookpage10.htm

For certain, iron is required by all photosynthetic organisms to grow. For certain, “when photosynthetic organisms grow, they are not limited in growth by the most abundant nutrient but by the least abundant”.

With that out of the way, I dose iron in all of my reef tanks and I do not operate an ATS. I do not measure, so I can’t give you the number you want. I suggest you google Randy Holmes Farley on iron dosing in reef tanks. If I were seeking knowledge on chemistry in reef tanks, I would go to him for information.

In my 25 year old 30G mud/cryptic sponge refugium, I have a section with iron rich substrate from Seachem.

nereefpat · 02/27/2018, 08:25 AM

Man, people sure love RHF. Here is a link to one of his write-ups:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

It's really hard to test for, since natural seawater has a concentration that is several decimal places away from even 1 part per billion...But

"Deciding how much iron to add is fairly easy because, in my experience, it doesn't seem to matter too much. Presumably, once you add enough to eliminate it as a limiting nutrient, extra iron does not cause apparent harm (at least that I've detected in my aquarium or have heard of from others). I dose about 0.1 to 0.3 mL of a solution containing 5 g of iron (as 25 g of ferrous sulfate heptahydrate) in 250 mL of water containing 50.7 g of sodium citrate dihydrate. I presently dose once per week to my system with a total water volume of about 200 gallons. This iron(II) citrate turns brown and cloudy over time, but I still use it. " RHF

ca1ore · 02/27/2018, 08:54 AM

I've been dosing iron for years. Mostly to encourage chaeto growth, though I do also run an ATS. I dose very sparingly as Fe is tough to test for.

NubbsJRN · 02/27/2018, 06:52 PM

Thanks for the input!

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Subsea · 02/27/2018, 06:55 PM

I will address extra iron as described as an “iron storage mechanism” by Randy.

In one macro growout tumble culture of Gracilaria Hayi, I added iron and got a dramatic color change over night from orange to red. Within a week, I noticed a change in the thickness of the leaves. The Hayi had quadrupled in leaf thickness and felt spongy to the touch. After withholding iron for a few weeks, the leaves returned to original thickness and was lightly calcified.

zooman72 · 02/27/2018, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

I've been dosing iron for years. Mostly to encourage chaeto growth, though I do also run an ATS. I dose very sparingly as Fe is tough to test for.

Same here, although I do not run an ATS. I have noticed that not only did my chaetomorpha grow better it seems (anecdotal of course), but it was a darker green, and lightened noticeably when I did not dose iron (using Brightwell Aquatics Ferrion currently).

Pet Detective · 02/27/2018, 07:09 PM

I add Kent Marine Iron & Manganese, 2 cap fulls every water change, all photosynthetic creatures benefit from it.

Scrubber_steve · 02/27/2018, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinfallz

what is your purpose in adding iron?

The reason I asked this question was to know if either 1, you were wanting to add iron because you think you have to to grow macro-algae, or 2, if you were wanting to add it for other reasons?

From Randy - The topics discussed in this article serve to support the contention that there is little reason to add iron in the absence of macroalgae. end

I've used a scrubber consistantly for a couple of years, and until recently, never dosed iron. The algae grew fine, and did the job, without dosing it. There's enough iron in the food added to the tank.

If your keeping a macro tank, with lots of algae, there's a case for adding it.

I recently started using aquaforest, make your own Balling method elements supliments, & iron is part of the trace additives. I used a half recommended dose & a full dose & saw no difference in algae growth on my "ATS".

NubbsJRN · 02/27/2018, 08:03 PM

I have a 150 gallon tank and have cheato, some red macro and have recently added a large ATS. I have been thinking about starting to dose iron and have been reading arrivals on it. Just wanted to hear people's thoughts as the arrivals I am reading could be outdated. My goal is to have healty cheato, red macro, and hair (only in the ats)

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Pet Detective · 02/27/2018, 08:05 PM

Yes, Macro Algae & I'm a creature of habit, been adding it for years with no adverse affects and it's inexpensive, so I continue to do so...maybe it's a waste of time but my cheato went from a lighter green to a darker green when I began adding iron years ago.

I do not run an Algae Turf Scrubber.

Subsea · 02/27/2018, 08:25 PM

Anybody that has added iron to their lawn will have noticed that Greens darkened up. I see it in my garden as well.

Subsea · 02/27/2018, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinfallz

The reason I asked this question was to know if either 1, you were wanting to add iron because you think you have to to grow macro-algae, or 2, if you were wanting to add it for other reasons?

From Randy - The topics discussed in this article serve to support the contention that there is little reason to add iron in the absence of macroalgae. end

I've used a scrubber consistantly for a couple of years, and until recently, never dosed iron. The algae grew fine, and did the job, without dosing it. There's enough iron in the food added to the tank.

If your keeping a macro tank, with lots of algae, there's a case for adding it.

I recently started using aquaforest, make your own Balling method elements supliments, & iron is part of the trace additives. I used a half recommended dose & a full dose & saw no difference in algae growth on my "ATS".

Why is the algae on your ATS not macro algae? If micro algae is phytoplankton and everything else is macro algae: turf, hair, slime, utilitarian and ornamental.

Scrubber_steve · 02/27/2018, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subsea

Why is the algae on your ATS not macro algae? If micro algae is phytoplankton and everything else is macro algae: turf, hair, slime, utilitarian and ornamental.

It is a macro-alga - ulva. I never said it wasn't a macro-alga growing on my screen?

ca1ore · 02/27/2018, 09:53 PM

I add iron to my system because I was having issues growing chaeto. Played around with lighting, to no avail; but when I started dosing iron growth resumed.

Scrubber_steve · 02/27/2018, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

I add iron to my system because I was having issues growing chaeto. Played around with lighting, to no avail; but when I started dosing iron growth resumed.

I'd imagine that iron would benifit some algae more than others, especially the fleshier algae species.

NubbsJRN · 02/27/2018, 10:04 PM

I have always been of the thinking that you should not dose things you do not measure however from everything I am hearing this seems to possible be an exception to that for a lot of people.

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Scrubber_steve · 02/27/2018, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NubbsJRN

I have always been of the thinking that you should not dose things you do not measure however from everything I am hearing this seems to possible be an exception to that for a lot of people.

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Its taken up pretty quickly. Dose sparingly & no need to measure.

ca1ore · 02/27/2018, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subsea

Why is the algae on your ATS not macro algae? If micro algae is phytoplankton and everything else is macro algae: turf, hair, slime, utilitarian and ornamental.

Hah, never really thought of GHA as a macro.

Scrubber_steve · 02/27/2018, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Hah, never really thought of GHA as a macro.

You probably have a species of ulva (enteromorpha) on your screen anyway

ca1ore · 02/27/2018, 10:47 PM

It's a mix of both actually.

Subsea · 02/28/2018, 05:37 AM

Twin,
I feed heavily with live oysters, frozen foods and flakes. I have been adding ammonia to all of my tanks.

Do you think that the uptake of nitrogen reflects the optimum growth rate of macro as compared to the Redfield Ratio.

Scrubber_steve · 02/28/2018, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subsea

Twin,
I feed heavily with live oysters, frozen foods and flakes. I have been adding ammonia to all of my tanks.

Do you think that the uptake of nitrogen reflects the optimum growth rate of macro as compared to the Redfield Ratio.

We discussed this in another thread sub -

The atomic ratio C:N:P in phytoplankton is 106C:16N:1P, while bethnic plants (mean of 92 species) on average have a somewhat higher ratio of 550C:30N:1P. These ratios indicate that many seaweeds are more prone to N limitation than phytoplankton.
The ratio of two nutrients that is required for maximal growth of a seaweed is called the optimum ratio. As stated above, the average N:P ratio for seaweeds is 30N:1P with a range from 10:1 to 80:1
http://sailing-sea-farm.com/onewebme...v%C3%A6kst.pdf

Why do you dose ammonia? Are you growing macroalgae for a purpose other than filtration?

02/27/2018, 03:27 AM	#1
NubbsJRN Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 127	Ats & iron. For those of you running a ATS, how many of you dose iron and what is your target level for iron? All of the arrivals I could find are over two years old and I want to make sure the thinking has not changed. Thanks! Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

02/27/2018, 03:46 AM	#3
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Iron, no. and my ATS grows very well. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

02/27/2018, 05:56 AM	#4
Subsea Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 1,882	https://www.marineplantbook.com/marinebookpage10.htm For certain, iron is required by all photosynthetic organisms to grow. For certain, “when photosynthetic organisms grow, they are not limited in growth by the most abundant nutrient but by the least abundant”. With that out of the way, I dose iron in all of my reef tanks and I do not operate an ATS. I do not measure, so I can’t give you the number you want. I suggest you google Randy Holmes Farley on iron dosing in reef tanks. If I were seeking knowledge on chemistry in reef tanks, I would go to him for information. In my 25 year old 30G mud/cryptic sponge refugium, I have a section with iron rich substrate from Seachem. __________________ Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout

02/27/2018, 08:25 AM	#5
nereefpat Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 3,190	Man, people sure love RHF. Here is a link to one of his write-ups: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php It's really hard to test for, since natural seawater has a concentration that is several decimal places away from even 1 part per billion...But "Deciding how much iron to add is fairly easy because, in my experience, it doesn't seem to matter too much. Presumably, once you add enough to eliminate it as a limiting nutrient, extra iron does not cause apparent harm (at least that I've detected in my aquarium or have heard of from others). I dose about 0.1 to 0.3 mL of a solution containing 5 g of iron (as 25 g of ferrous sulfate heptahydrate) in 250 mL of water containing 50.7 g of sodium citrate dihydrate. I presently dose once per week to my system with a total water volume of about 200 gallons. This iron(II) citrate turns brown and cloudy over time, but I still use it. " RHF __________________ Pat Current Tank Info: 125 in-wall , 40b sump. 6 bulb T5. ASM G2 skimmer. LPS and leathers

02/27/2018, 08:54 AM	#6
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	I've been dosing iron for years. Mostly to encourage chaeto growth, though I do also run an ATS. I dose very sparingly as Fe is tough to test for. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

02/27/2018, 03:39 AM	#2
Scrubber_steve I'm really very likeable Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Down Under Posts: 676	what is your purpose in adding iron?

02/27/2018, 06:52 PM	#7
NubbsJRN Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 127	Thanks for the input! Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

02/27/2018, 06:55 PM	#8
Subsea Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 1,882	I will address extra iron as described as an “iron storage mechanism” by Randy. In one macro growout tumble culture of Gracilaria Hayi, I added iron and got a dramatic color change over night from orange to red. Within a week, I noticed a change in the thickness of the leaves. The Hayi had quadrupled in leaf thickness and felt spongy to the touch. After withholding iron for a few weeks, the leaves returned to original thickness and was lightly calcified. __________________ Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout

02/27/2018, 07:09 PM	#10
Pet Detective Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 328	I add Kent Marine Iron & Manganese, 2 cap fulls every water change, all photosynthetic creatures benefit from it.

02/27/2018, 08:03 PM	#12
NubbsJRN Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 127	I have a 150 gallon tank and have cheato, some red macro and have recently added a large ATS. I have been thinking about starting to dose iron and have been reading arrivals on it. Just wanted to hear people's thoughts as the arrivals I am reading could be outdated. My goal is to have healty cheato, red macro, and hair (only in the ats) Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

02/27/2018, 08:05 PM	#13
Pet Detective Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 328	Yes, Macro Algae & I'm a creature of habit, been adding it for years with no adverse affects and it's inexpensive, so I continue to do so...maybe it's a waste of time but my cheato went from a lighter green to a darker green when I began adding iron years ago. I do not run an Algae Turf Scrubber.

02/27/2018, 08:25 PM	#14
Subsea Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 1,882	Anybody that has added iron to their lawn will have noticed that Greens darkened up. I see it in my garden as well. __________________ Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout

02/27/2018, 09:53 PM	#17
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	I add iron to my system because I was having issues growing chaeto. Played around with lighting, to no avail; but when I started dosing iron growth resumed. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

02/27/2018, 10:04 PM	#19
NubbsJRN Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 127	I have always been of the thinking that you should not dose things you do not measure however from everything I am hearing this seems to possible be an exception to that for a lot of people. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

02/27/2018, 10:47 PM	#23
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	It's a mix of both actually. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

02/28/2018, 05:37 AM	#24
Subsea Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 1,882	Twin, I feed heavily with live oysters, frozen foods and flakes. I have been adding ammonia to all of my tanks. Do you think that the uptake of nitrogen reflects the optimum growth rate of macro as compared to the Redfield Ratio. __________________ Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout