Aquaforest products- Component 1+2+3+

[Aquaforest]

http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Component-123-in-enmll.jpg

[MichaelW]

I have just a few questions about this balling type system

1. Some Alk and calcium supplements I have used in the past are balanced (same dose requires of each) where some I dose a lot more alk than Calcium. Currently I dose way more alkalinity supplement than Calcium to keep my parameters stable. Does you supplements tend to need about the same dosage of each?
2. Your mag supplement is part of the calcium supplement.right now i do not need to dose magnesium as it seems to be kept in line with water changes and doesn't deplete in my system. Wouldn't it having to be dosed with calcium keep raising my mg way higher than I want?

3. The component 3 is mineral salts. How do we know how much to dose. It is not like all where we test consumption. Do you just dose the same as the amounts you dose for the other components? This must assume both alk and calcium demand the same volume of dosing)

I have stayed using many of your other products and really like the results so I was thinking of swithching from fauna marin balling lite to your system but just had these questions. Thanks for any response.

[Aquaforest]

I have just a few questions about this balling type system

1. Some Alk and calcium supplements I have used in the past are balanced (same dose requires of each) where some I dose a lot more alk than Calcium. Currently I dose way more alkalinity supplement than Calcium to keep my parameters stable. Does you supplements tend to need about the same dosage of each?
2. Your mag supplement is part of the calcium supplement.right now i do not need to dose magnesium as it seems to be kept in line with water changes and doesn't deplete in my system. Wouldn't it having to be dosed with calcium keep raising my mg way higher than I want?

3. The component 3 is mineral salts. How do we know how much to dose. It is not like all where we test consumption. Do you just dose the same as the amounts you dose for the other components? This must assume both alk and calcium demand the same volume of dosing)

I have stayed using many of your other products and really like the results so I was thinking of swithching from fauna marin balling lite to your system but just had these questions. Thanks for any response.

Hello,
Thank You for Your questions.

We recommend to dose every Components in the same dose.

For example:
Component 1+ - 100ml
Component 2+ - 100ml
Component 3+ - 100ml

If some macroelement is lower than optimum water parameters You Can use Calcium, Magnesium or Kh Buffer separate.
Component1+2+3+ contains microelements also so we do not recommend to use that to rise for example Ca only - because microelements will also rise.

Component 3+ contains Reef Mineral Salt and We recommend to use that in the same dose like every Components.

Can You tell us how much You dosing Balling method and what is Your water parameters?


Regards,
Aquaforest

[MichaelW]

Hello,
Thank You for Your questions.

We recommend to dose every Components in the same dose.

For example:
Component 1+ - 100ml
Component 2+ - 100ml
Component 3+ - 100ml

If some macroelement is lower than optimum water parameters You Can use Calcium, Magnesium or Kh Buffer separate.
Component1+2+3+ contains microelements also so we do not recommend to use that to rise for example Ca only - because microelements will also rise.

Component 3+ contains Reef Mineral Salt and We recommend to use that in the same dose like every Components.

Can You tell us how much You dosing Balling method and what is Your water parameters?


Regards,
Aquaforest

Right now I use the fauna marin balling lite method which also uses trace elements in containers but the 3 containers. Alk, calcium, mag. No container for mineral salts.
I dose ;
Alk 210 ml per day
Calcium 70 ml per day
Mag 0 ml per day

As you can tell very different amounts.
This dosing keeps my params as;
Alk 7.1
Ca 410
Mg 1350

[paal]

Hello,
Thank You for Your questions.

We recommend to dose every Components in the same dose.

For example:
Component 1+ - 100ml
Component 2+ - 100ml
Component 3+ - 100ml

If some macroelement is lower than optimum water parameters You Can use Calcium, Magnesium or Kh Buffer separate.
Component1+2+3+ contains microelements also so we do not recommend to use that to rise for example Ca only - because microelements will also rise.

Component 3+ contains Reef Mineral Salt and We recommend to use that in the same dose like every Components.

Can You tell us how much You dosing Balling method and what is Your water parameters?


Regards,
Aquaforest

Hello,
I will start a new tank shortly, and have planned to run your products from day one.
I have not used Aquaforest Comp 1/2/3 before, so I do not know if this will be an issue, but when I used to run balling light on my previous tank, I had to dose slightly different amounts from the three canisters because Mg/Alk/Ca had small "unbalances".

Maybe Aquaforest Comp 1/2/3 will give me great values with identical dosings, but for now, let us assume it will not and I therefore will have to add additional Calcium, Magnesium or Kh Buffer like described above.

I currently only have a 3-channel dosing pump, and I do not want to dose manually. Would I have to buy new dosing pumps for pure Calcium, Magnesium and Kh Buffer, or could I just add some of this to the corresponding Aquaforest Comp 1/2/3 canisters to "spike them up" if values are not perfect?

Hopefully that made sense :)

[MichaelW]

Also would I not have the issue of mag raising when dosing calcium if my tank is not having any magnesium demand? Currently my mag stays at 1350 1400 with no dosing

[MichaelW]

Is there any response to this? I have nearly used all my current balling mixtures and wanted to go with AF balling system but right now I don't add Magnesium, and didn't want to raise my mag when dosing ca.not sure why my mag sits at 1400 with no dosing... Salt mix isn't supposed to be that high.

[Tweaked]

Logic tells me you need to get all in line before the equal parts are to be administered. In a healthy environment, all of the elements are consumed equally.

[MichaelW]

Alk is 7.5, ca 400, mag 1350-1400, very solid for a long time. I believe everything is inline, I just don't need to dose mag.

[Tweaked]

If it were me I would have two options.

Start the Components 1,2, and 3 and watch and observe levels over the next couple weeks.

or

Start 2, and 3, and manually dose Calcium while Mg dropped. Note: you would be missing Sr, Ba, Co, Mn, Cu, Fe, Zn, Ni, Cr components that normally come with dosing Part 1.

[MichaelW]

Yeah I think I will switch and just monitor 2 see what happens. Currently my dosing is way more for all with fauna marin balling lite. From my reading this is normal and most people do not dose equal.. The question becomes do I dose equal amounts of all three AF products based on my current all amount or calcium amount. I hope ca as it's way less

[Tweaked]

According to my readings, the animals will always uptake equal parts in a healthy environment. The "healthy environment" part always get me, but assume it means temp, lighting, flow, and nutrients, etc.

[MichaelW]

Not all products have the same concentraion therefore the amount dosed may not be equal yet the actual amount of calcium and carbonated might be

[MichaelW]

Is it best to work out the dose to maintain alk and match the other 2 doses to that? Again I still have the concern of what if my dose amounts needed are not equal and the adding mag if I don't need 2. But these questions havnt really been addresed.

[fessoclown]

Is it best to work out the dose to maintain alk and match the other 2 doses to that? Again I still have the concern of what if my dose amounts needed are not equal and the adding mag if I don't need 2. But these questions havnt really been addresed.




Following along... Would also like an explanation.

[Jimmy75]

Is it best to work out the dose to maintain alk and match the other 2 doses to that? Again I still have the concern of what if my dose amounts needed are not equal and the adding mag if I don't need 2. But these questions havnt really been addresed.
You should balance them first by dosing individually before using one of them, like alk, to dose them in equal parts using +1+2+3. This is what was shared with me by others.

[MichaelW]

They are balanced.but currently they are kept in balance with no magnesium dosing and not equal quantities of fauna marin balling lite solutions. I actually don't know any one using fauna marin that doses equal amounts of all 3.
But to work out what the dose of all 3 AF products do you work off of alk consumption..for example I need 35ml of alk solution daily to keep alk where I want it, so I will dose 35ml of all 3 containers.

[Aquaforest]

You should balance them first by dosing individually before using one of them, like alk, to dose them in equal parts using +1+2+3. This is what was shared with me by others.

Component1+2+3+ contains microelements also that's why We are not recommend to dose individual Components to rise individual Macroelements.


Regards,
Aquaforest

[MichaelW]

Component1+2+3+ contains microelements also that's why We are not recommend to dose individual Components to rise individual Macroelements.


Regards,
Aquaforest
Yes this I understand, my question was about working out the dosage for all 3 containers is it best to work out amount needed to maintain alk and dose the other 2 the same? How about the fact I currently don't need to dose mg but it is included with calcium?

[Aquaforest]

Didi You try to dose every components in the same dosage?

For example 150ml-150ml-150ml?

[MichaelW]

Didi You try to dose every components in the same dosage?

For example 150ml-150ml-150ml?

I have not used your product yet. I wanted to get some answers to questions I had about the product before trying.
In your example you are basing the 150ml dose for each container based on the tanks alkalinity demand? So the tank needs 150 ml of alk component to keep alk steady, so dose 150 of all 3 components.
Like mentioned above, with my current products, I do not dose any magnesium and it stays in line. I do of course dose calcium...... With your product every time I dose calcium I will also dose magnesium... Therefore wouldn't my magnesium raise above desired levels?

[elviraveloz]

When I first started ( two months ago ) I wasn't dosing magnesium. I started dosing based on my alkalinity demand which is 59ml and mag level stayed the same. I am having more difficulty stabilizing alkalinity because I was dosing kalkwasser on top off water and I stopped slowly. I don't buy pre mixed bottles, I bought components strong,kh buffer and mineral salt and I mix myself. At present using AF whole line. I use Reef salt because I control nitrates with denitrator.

[elviraveloz]

Always be careful when switching to new products. I monitored the tank closely by testing 2x a day and started slowly, dosing manually if necessary.

[Reefheart]

Hi, I'm looking at starting dosing and considering these Aquaforest supplements. According to the website, dose 50ml/100l to raise CA by 9ppm. This seems a lot lower CA concentration than other products. I'm new to dosing, so might get this part wrong, wouldn't this means I need to add a lot more and increase salinity faster?

[Aquaforest]

Hi, I'm looking at starting dosing and considering these Aquaforest supplements. According to the website, dose 50ml/100l to raise CA by 9ppm. This seems a lot lower CA concentration than other products. I'm new to dosing, so might get this part wrong, wouldn't this means I need to add a lot more and increase salinity faster?

This is classic Balling Method.
Are You dosing Ca,Kh,Mg for now?

[Reefheart]

I'm manually dosing Seachem Complete (CA) and Buffer (Alk). For the CA, 5ml will give 10ppm in 80L. So I will only need to dose 5ml to provide the same amount of CA as 50ml of AQ Component+1 in 100L volume.

Did I interpret/compare the dosage correctly?? Abit concern the larger dosage of AQ will increase salinity a lot faster over time.

Sorry if I misunderstood the whole thing completely.

[MichaelW]

I just ordered the component 1+2+3+. With my current (fauna marin) system I dose 230ml per day alk and around70-80 no per day Calcium.
I know with your system it is supposed to be equal amounts all 3 so my question is, which daily dose for all 3 components is more likely as a starting point for a 200gallon sps heavy system?
Is there a rough average say sps heavy tank around xxml per 100gallons per day?
230 of each component sounds like a lot.
For reference here is my tank. It is 200 gallons

http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o578/wenham09/Tank/image.jpg21_zpsnlocnbyg.jpg (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/wenham09/media/Tank/image.jpg21_zpsnlocnbyg.jpg.html)

[Tweaked]

So you are dosing 230ml of Alk, but only 7-80ml of Ca a day? That cant be right...

[MichaelW]

The fauna marin mixes differently you only use a 1/4 the amount of powder for the alk mix compared to the calcium mix for the same amount of water.

[Tweaked]

Confusing but equal parts are taken in by corals. Get the big three in line, and dose 1,2,3 in equal parts daily according to daily uptake in alk.

[Tweaked]

And yes they have a starting point for ml per day

[Magem]

I have started with this system 15 days ago. 96 ml of each one maintaining a constant Kh, Ca and Mg level. IMO it is important prior to achieve a good Kh-Ca balance. Any case I have just started with aqua forest and I have a limited experience to share...

[Magem]

And sorry for my English...;)

[Tweaked]

BTW, ever read up on the website? Great info including two downloads which I printed and bound for quick ref.

In case of a reservoir containing average number of hard corals, the dose is approximately 50 ml daily per 100 liters of water.

[MichaelW]

50 ml daily of each component per 100l would put me close to 400ml per day of each for 200 g correct? Seems like an aweful lot! One jug is only 5litres.

[Tweaked]

50 ml daily of each component per 100l would put me close to 400ml per day of each for 200 g correct? Seems like an aweful lot! One jug is only 5litres.

It sure does and am waiting for Perry to begin so we can all see what his dosing amounts are. His thread can be found typically near the top of the SPS forum.

[MichaelW]

Yeah I have been following his thread. I think Debora uses comp1+2+3+ so I will see if she has her dosage amount listed. If it really will be that much of each component I guess I should have ordered a lot more.

[MichaelW]

Is there a aquaforest rep who could chime in with if they think 400ml of each component sounds reasonable for a 200 gallon tank? Or what a more likely starting amount would be? I don't really want to not dose anything for a day or 2 to work out my consumption because if I do that my alk will drop....a lot.

[Aquaforest]

Hi,
I recommend to start to dose every components per 150ml and If it will me not enough You can use Kh Buffer and dose that separate to time when everything will stabilize and rise every components.
We do not recommend to rise individual macroelement by Component1+2+3+ because that contains microlements also.

Regards,
Aquaforest

[MichaelW]

Thank you for response. I will start with 150ml of each and go from there. I understand not to raise levels with the components+ due to the microelements.

[plyle02]

Thank you for response. I will start with 150ml of each and go from there. I understand not to raise levels with the components+ due to the microelements.

Michael,
If it were me, I would test alk/ca/and mag the morning before you go online with the component system, then begin dosing. The next morning, the same time, I would again test alk. I would repeat this process every morning, increasing or decreasing the dosing amounts, based on your alk readings. Once you are at you're desired alk level, which should be 6.5-7.5 roughly, I would then confirm every morning for a week to ensure you are locked in. I say this because alk is the least forgiving parameter we test with regards to sps. I truly believe that once you lock in alk, you will likely be locked in on all the others. We have used this system at the shop I work at for 2 months now, it really holds all levels consistently, based on my test results there. I will soon be online with my home reef.
Regards,

[Tweaked]

Michael,
If it were me, I would test alk/ca/and mag the morning before you go online with the component system, then begin dosing. The next morning, the same time, I would again test alk. I would repeat this process every morning, increasing or decreasing the dosing amounts, based on your alk readings. Once you are at you're desired alk level, which should be 6.5-7.5 roughly, I would then confirm every morning for a week to ensure you are locked in. I say this because alk is the least forgiving parameter we test with regards to sps. I truly believe that once you lock in alk, you will likely be locked in on all the others. We have used this system at the shop I work at for 2 months now, it really holds all levels consistently, based on my test results there. I will soon be online with my home reef.
Regards,

Great info Perry.

[elviraveloz]

Exactly what I did. I just started with sps not long ago. All I have is a bunch of frags so I'm only dosing 59 ml daily, keeping alk at 7.0-7.5.

[MichaelW]

Michael,
If it were me, I would test alk/ca/and mag the morning before you go online with the component system, then begin dosing. The next morning, the same time, I would again test alk. I would repeat this process every morning, increasing or decreasing the dosing amounts, based on your alk readings. Once you are at you're desired alk level, which should be 6.5-7.5 roughly, I would then confirm every morning for a week to ensure you are locked in. I say this because alk is the least forgiving parameter we test with regards to sps. I truly believe that once you lock in alk, you will likely be locked in on all the others. We have used this system at the shop I work at for 2 months now, it really holds all levels consistently, based on my test results there. I will soon be online with my home reef.
Regards,

Yes this is exactly what I was going to do (except test at night as I don't have time in morning) I was just looking for a rough estimate start amount so I'm the first day I don't drop a whole 1 dkh hrough not dosing enough. My alk now sits at 7.3 and that's where I want to keep it. I would actually probably prefers to over estimate my dose and see it rise to say 7.5 ( then I can just lower the dosage from there) than underside and have to worry about raising it up more with other products. I might start with 200ml of each to start and see where that takes me. I think from looking in Debora's thread she was dosing 250 ml of each.
I will have to look into getting more soon as it will be used up quick. Or I guess you can by the components seperatly and mix your own. I'm guessing it mixes up Exactly like the pre made product and probably works out cheaper?

[plyle02]

I would always go less for starting points than more, spiking alk is less forgivable than declining alk, IMO and experience.

[MichaelW]

Yeah thinking about it that makes more sense. The aquaforest balling salts must be less concentrated than many of the other brands. Not saying that as a negative just an observation. I was a little shocked to see how much I might need to dose to keep constant levels. One package of the product won't last too long but is also not as expensive as the products I was using before.
Does any one here know if the premixed components + are exactly the same as if you were to buy the alk buffer etc and add the components strong yourself? This way you wouldn't be paying for water also.

[plyle02]

Yeah thinking about it that makes more sense. The aquaforest balling salts must be less concentrated than many of the other brands. Not saying that as a negative just an observation. I was a little shocked to see how much I might need to dose to keep constant levels. One package of the product won't last too long but is also not as expensive as the products I was using before.
Does any one here know if the premixed components + are exactly the same as if you were to buy the alk buffer etc and add the components strong yourself? This way you wouldn't be paying for water also.

Michael,
I think you will be surprised at how little you will need, I think once your corals settle in and begin growth, obviously your demand will increase, but your starting point will likely be less than what is indicated in terms of suggested dosing. For this, I say start at 1/2 what the volume replenishment indicates on dosing, take it from there, either increase or decrease based on your test results. Going to be tricky the first week, but this would occur with any 2 part transition. The positive is that you need nothing else in terms of trace, so that right there makes this mix valuable, at least to me. As far as the dry versus pre-mixed, I would imagine this would be the same, you would just have to figure ratios and so forth. I will look into this a bit deeper and get back to the thread.
Cheers Michael :)

[fessoclown]

Following along, thanks Perry for the explanation.... please do continue this thread. I am currently holding fast with just kalk but my intention is to move to component 1+2+3 once Kalk can't keep up.....

150 ml a day does seem to be quite a bit as the 5L would only last 1 month... that gets pricey....

[MichaelW]

In the AF manual for the dry powders it does say mix 50grams of calcium and 10 grams of magnesium in 1000ml ow water, 80 grams of kh buffer in 1000ml of water, and 25 grams mineral salt in 1000 grams water. Also has about adding 5 ml of the different components strong in the different solutions. In guessing this produces exactly what is in the pre made bottles?

[MichaelW]

Now I need to go look up the prices and amounts of each of these to work out price differences between the pre made.

[plyle02]

Now I need to go look up the prices and amounts of each of these to work out price differences between the pre made.

Michael,
I kind of figured the products were assembled this way. I will likely be using the pre-mixed to see how the tank reacts, but keep me posted on your findings should you gravitate towards the dry formula.
Thanks,

[MichaelW]

To aquaforest rep,
If you mix your own with the dry kh, ca,mag,and mineral salts and add the components strong, do you end up with exactly the same product? And would it be more cost effective?

[Aquaforest]

As You Can see in our Guide (http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Aquaforest_Products-Guide_EN_sRGB_WEB.pdf)

There is few ways to dose Macro and Micro:

http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Balling-methode.png

http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/ballingmethod2.jpg

1 - Ca Plus, KH Plus, MG Plus (macro) + Component A, Component B, Component C(micro)
2 - Calcium, Magnesium, KH Buffer, Reef Mineral Salt ( Macro) + Components Strong (micro)
3- Calcium, Magnesium, KH Buffer, Reef Mineral Salt ( Macro) + Kalium, Iodum, Fluorine, Iron, Strontium, Micro E (micro)
4 - Component 1+2+3+

Every ways working the same - but Aquarist should find comfortable products for self:)


Regards,
Aquaforest

[Tweaked]

Shouldn't option "1" also include Kalium for others looking at options? This confused me at first as I did not see that either three of the components ABC contained Kalium, so I am balling it manually.

[MichaelW]

So option 2 produces the exact same as option 4? I have option 4 being delivered today but when I have used it up I may do option 2 if it is the same but costs less.

[Marc11]

So I run ABC with Kalk for Alk and Cal. Should I also be dosing Kalium? I was under the impression that all micronutrients were in ABC.

[Tweaked]

So I run ABC with Kalk for Alk and Cal. Should I also be dosing Kalium? I was under the impression that all micronutrients were in ABC.

No, Kalium is not in ABC

[Aquaforest]

So option 2 produces the exact same as option 4? I have option 4 being delivered today but when I have used it up I may do option 2 if it is the same but costs less.

Yes.
2=4


Aquaforest

[mordibv]

So option 2 produces the exact same as option 4? I have option 4 being delivered today but when I have used it up I may do option 2 if it is the same but costs less.


Sent u a PM . Didn't want to derail the thread .

[Magem]

Yes.

2=4





Aquaforest


In relation with option 2, Where can I find the quantity of grams and ml of each product to mix with RO water and prepare the three components? Thanks !

[elviraveloz]

Every container comes with written insert with instruction in like six different languages.

[MichaelW]

I started the dosing of component 1+ 2+ 3+ a few days ago. I started at 180ml per day of each. I think I am now close to the correct dosage at 230ml of each. My levels have dropped of course while trying to find the correct dose so will be bringing them back up with standard buffers etc. I think I may have to dose a little more but not much to maintain my desired parameters.
It is quite a lot of dosage compared to what I was doing before so the containers won't last long. Next time I will buy the bulk powders and components strong and mix a large amount myself.

[Magem]

Every container comes with written insert with instruction in like six different languages.


Thanks!!

[MichaelW]

I have ordered and received all products needed to make version 2 above, however the magnesium buffer was back ordered and will not arrive for a while. My question is would it be fine to make the balling solutions just without the magnesium and use this untill the mag buffer arrives? Or would it cause a problem?

[Aquaforest]

I have ordered and received all products needed to make version 2 above, however the magnesium buffer was back ordered and will not arrive for a while. My question is would it be fine to make the balling solutions just without the magnesium and use this untill the mag buffer arrives? Or would it cause a problem?

If You have Components1+2+3+ for now so I recommend to wait for everything. If You haven't anything to dose then You Can prepare Balling without magnesium.

Regards,
Aquaforest

[MichaelW]

I have used up all my comp 1+ 2+ 3+. I will mix a small amount without mag and hope it arrives soon

[aShF]

Hi,

How are people dosing these into the tank(I know with a doser), do you dose all 3 at the same time or 30min/1hour gaps between each of them? How many doses over 24hrs?

Thanks

[nemodan]

As You Can see in our Guide (http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Aquaforest_Products-Guide_EN_sRGB_WEB.pdf)

There is few ways to dose Macro and Micro:

http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Balling-methode.png

http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/ballingmethod2.jpg

1 - Ca Plus, KH Plus, MG Plus (macro) + Component A, Component B, Component C(micro)
2 - Calcium, Magnesium, KH Buffer, Reef Mineral Salt ( Macro) + Components Strong (micro)
3- Calcium, Magnesium, KH Buffer, Reef Mineral Salt ( Macro) + Kalium, Iodum, Fluorine, Iron, Strontium, Micro E (micro)
4 - Component 1+2+3+

Every ways working the same - but Aquarist should find comfortable products for self:)


Regards,
Aquaforest


Hi

From the quoted posting I understand that IF I USE COMPONENT A + B + C with my dosing method I will be near with what it is achieved if I use the Balling system 1+2+3........ correct ?


I am using B-ionic (1 and 2) for dosing. It is an equilibrated 2 part dosing system (alk and Ca).

I do have a DOS Neptune dosing system that has only 2 pumps. Buying a new dosing system with 3 pumps it will be expensive (~ $300-$450).

Also my system is equilibrated,as it is today in Ca, Alk and Mg. I replenish Mg with 15% Water Changes every weekend.

Being said all these, I am still having issues to keep a nicely loaded tank with SPS.

I am missing something that my WC are not able to replenish enought. I am using Reef Crystal Salts.

So, I thought that instead of jumping to the Balling system and expend a lot of money in new dosing pumps, I can add the components A, B and C and continue with my dosing system.


What do you think ?

Thank you !!
Daniel

[mhucasey]

Hi

From the quoted posting I understand that IF I USE COMPONENT A + B + C with my dosing method I will be near with what it is achieved if I use the Balling system 1+2+3........ correct ?


I am using B-ionic (1 and 2) for dosing. It is an equilibrated 2 part dosing system (alk and Ca).

I do have a DOS Neptune dosing system that has only 2 pumps. Buying a new dosing system with 3 pumps it will be expensive (~ $300-$450).

Also my system is equilibrated,as it is today in Ca, Alk and Mg. I replenish Mg with 15% Water Changes every weekend.

Being said all these, I am still having issues to keep a nicely loaded tank with SPS.

I am missing something that my WC are not able to replenish enought. I am using Reef Crystal Salts.

So, I thought that instead of jumping to the Balling system and expend a lot of money in new dosing pumps, I can add the components A, B and C and continue with my dosing system.


What do you think ?

Thank you !!
Daniel
Daniel, B-ionic already has the micronutrients in it, I wouldn't add the components strong to them. If you wanted to switch over to the Components you mix up Calcium and Magnesium Chloride(part 1), Sodium Carbonate(part2), and "Reef Mineral Salt"(Sodium chloride free salt)(Part 3).

The components are added to these- Component A&B go into Part 1, Component C into Part 2, Component D into part 3. This is classic full Balling.

If you wanted to try this just get one BRS 1.1ml/min Peristaltic pump, they are about 80 bucks. You plug it directly into an Apex outlet. No need to buy a whole new Three head doser.

I cant stress enough, don't double up with B-Ionic trace elements! I used B-ionic in the beginning and I saw many improvements in health when I gave up on it and went to classic Randy's recipe 2-part.

[nemodan]

Daniel, B-ionic already has the micronutrients in it, I wouldn't add the components strong to them. If you wanted to switch over to the Components you mix up Calcium and Magnesium Chloride(part 1), Sodium Carbonate(part2), and "Reef Mineral Salt"(Sodium chloride free salt)(Part 3).

The components are added to these- Component A&B go into Part 1, Component C into Part 2, Component D into part 3. This is classic full Balling.

If you wanted to try this just get one BRS 1.1ml/min Peristaltic pump, they are about 80 bucks. You plug it directly into an Apex outlet. No need to buy a whole new Three head doser.

I cant stress enough, don't double up with B-Ionic trace elements! I used B-ionic in the beginning and I saw many improvements in health when I gave up on it and went to classic Randy's recipe 2-part.

Thank you Matt for your answer and advice !!!!

For more that I tried I couldn't fine any reference of what it is in the B-ionic bottles , beside bicarbonate and Ca. I hate myself for not being able to find any details about the B-ionic.

As I was reading this thread I though that I could manage to add once a week the A, B and C components to the tank, to supplement whatever the Reef Crystal mix isn't able to supplement.

My LFS suggested me to add the "strong components A,B and C " to my B-ionic and I said NO !!!! (That was 2 weeks ago).

Reading this thread I realized that there are also big bottles of the components A, B and C , that is suggested to be used at least once a week. I said to myself " I can do that, when I am back home, once a week, I can add a little if those components to the tank manually".

If I understand correctly Matt, you do NOT SUGGEST to add components A, B and C in ANY of the suggested ways. OR you are refering only to the "component strong ".

In other words : if I add, once a week, as suggested by AF, manually, components A, B, C to my tank, could be an issue because I am already using b-Ionic that have some of those components ?

Cheers ...... and THANK YOU !!!! As always for you impute.

Daniel

BTW: I have 2 BRS dosing pumps, that I replaced with the DOS Apex system, connected and programed to my Apex, and not not in use now. I am afraid of using one of them to pump the same volume as the DOS because at the end I will not be sure ever if the 3 pumps are dosing what they have to dose.

[mhucasey]

Thank you Matt for your answer and advice !!!!

For more that I tried I couldn't fine any reference of what it is in the B-ionic bottles , beside bicarbonate and Ca. I hate myself for not being able to find any details about the B-ionic.

As I was reading this thread I though that I could manage to add once a week the A, B and C components to the tank, to supplement whatever the Reef Crystal mix isn't able to supplement.

My LFS suggested me to add the "strong components A,B and C " to my B-ionic and I said NO !!!! (That was 2 weeks ago).

Reading this thread I realized that there are also big bottles of the components A, B and C , that is suggested to be used at least once a week. I said to myself " I can do that, when I am back home, once a week, I can add a little if those components to the tank manually".

If I understand correctly Matt, you do NOT SUGGEST to add components A, B and C in ANY of the suggested ways. OR you are refering only to the "component strong ".

In other words : if I add, once a week, as suggested by AF, manually, components A, B, C to my tank, could be an issue because I am already using b-Ionic that have some of those components ?

Cheers ...... and THANK YOU !!!! As always for you impute.

Daniel

BTW: I have 2 BRS dosing pumps, that I replaced with the DOS Apex system, connected and programed to my Apex, and not not in use now. I am afraid of using one of them to pump the same volume as the DOS because at the end I will not be sure ever if the 3 pumps are dosing what they have to dose.
AFs Naming is confusing, that is part of the problem.
B-ionic 2-part contains the same elements that are in "Components A, B, and C" I wouldn't dose them together with B-ionic as you would be doubling up on trace elements.
"Components Strong A, B, C, and K(I said D above, its K)" are used to make up classic 3-part Balling.
I find the BRS pumps to be extremely reliable and accurate, you would obviously dose for a different duration than the DOS pump. You can check the accuracy of the BRS pump by letting it pump into a container for 10 minutes and then measuring the volume and dividing by 10.

B-ionic is supposed to be amazing stuff that will do it all with only two parts. I did not find that to be true. For the cost savings and stability I much preferred Baking soda and Calcium Carbonate(Randy's 2-part).

[tangens]

Hi.

I run the Zeovit method using the calcium reactor with Ca, Kh - coral gravel + Mg media inside it.
Tell me please, can I use your - Aquaforest balling method in my Zeovit system.
If so, what is the recommended kit of Aquaforest products I should use.

Thank you,
Alex.

[Aquaforest]

Hi.

I run the Zeovit method using the calcium reactor with Ca, Kh - coral gravel + Mg media inside it.
Tell me please, can I use your - Aquaforest balling method in my Zeovit system.
If so, what is the recommended kit of Aquaforest products I should use.

Thank you,
Alex.

Hello,
In our display Tank we dose Component1+2+3+ with Calcium Reactor but this is Big tank with Big corals colonies.
Do You need to dose Ca,KH,Mg extra?

[tangens]

Hello,
In our display Tank we dose Component1+2+3+ with Calcium Reactor but this is Big tank with Big corals colonies.
Do You need to dose Ca,KH,Mg extra?

Hi.

Thank you for your response!

Inside the first chamber of the reactor, I use the coral grave (by KZ).
Inside the second chamber (the small on), I use magnesium media (dolomite by KZ).
I hold the ph level inside the calcium reactor on 6.5.

My parameters are:
Ca 410 (normal)
dKh 8.3 (slightly high)
Mg 1245 (low)

If I try to decrease the dKh level, my ph drops down to 7.6 (day) and 7.4 night. Then the low ph stimulating the algae.

So I have the several questions for you, please:

1. Which media do you recommend to use in my calcium reactor?
2. What is preferable to run Balling or Calcium reactor, in case the both SEPARATELY can supply the demands of my SPS corals?
3. Can I use your Component1+2+3+ instead my calcium reactor and continue to run the Zeovit system? I mean, can it be the overdose or collision using the Component1+2+3+ elements with ZeoVit products?

Thank you!
Alex.

[Aquaforest]

First of all You should know what contains Your products of another brand then AF.
We explain You everything of our products but it will be good to know what are You dosing to Your tank to not double dosage.

If Your Calcium reactor fill doesn't contains microelements You can dose that separately:
Iodum, Valium, Fluorine, Iron, Micro E, Strontium or by Component A, Component B, Component C,

I You will choose balling You Can find few ways to dose macro (Ca,KH,MG) and Micro:
http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Balling_Method2ml.jpg

Component 1+2+3+ contains macro (Ca,KH,MG) and Microelements. This is full set - ready to use formula for growth and coloration.

[jason78]

So like the original method. When using 1,2 and 3 in equal parts for example 50ml of each for a total of 150ml. Do you need to the remove 150ml of tank water to keep the salinity in check?

[2una]

Aquaforest Rep question please:

I'm using Component ABC, recommended dose divided into daily amount fed via doser - dosing 1ml/day (7ml/week) above recommended level.

I'm still having to add 4ml/day of iodide(Aquavitro) to maintain a 0.04-0.06 reading.
This makes me think the others elements are perhaps being dosed to low also.

To properly set correct dosing of ABC would iodide be a ok canary to use?
eg: raise amount i am dosing until the ABC alone gives me a more consistent 0.04-0.06 Iodide reading?

For Salt + Alk/Ca/Mg i'm using Aquavitro line,No AF agents down here & the salt is too heavy/expensive to import.

[2una]

Aquaforest Rep question please:

I'm using Component ABC, recommended dose divided into daily amount fed via doser - dosing 1ml/day (7ml/week) above recommended level.

I'm still having to add 4ml/day of iodide(Aquavitro) to maintain a 0.04-0.06 reading.
This makes me think the others elements are perhaps being dosed to low also.

To properly set correct dosing of ABC would iodide be a ok canary to use?
eg: raise amount i am dosing until the ABC alone gives me a more consistent 0.04-0.06 Iodide reading?

For Salt + Alk/Ca/Mg i'm using Aquavitro line,No AF agents down here & the salt is too heavy/expensive to import.

Just to add to that my Strontium also comes in low @ 0.90 meq/L
Use salifert tests for both that & I2

[Aquaforest]

So like the original method. When using 1,2 and 3 in equal parts for example 50ml of each for a total of 150ml. Do you need to the remove 150ml of tank water to keep the salinity in check?

No. Do not remove water. This is not rising salinity.

[Aquaforest]

Aquaforest Rep question please:

I'm using Component ABC, recommended dose divided into daily amount fed via doser - dosing 1ml/day (7ml/week) above recommended level.

I'm still having to add 4ml/day of iodide(Aquavitro) to maintain a 0.04-0.06 reading.
This makes me think the others elements are perhaps being dosed to low also.

To properly set correct dosing of ABC would iodide be a ok canary to use?
eg: raise amount i am dosing until the ABC alone gives me a more consistent 0.04-0.06 Iodide reading?

For Salt + Alk/Ca/Mg i'm using Aquavitro line,No AF agents down here & the salt is too heavy/expensive to import.

Hello,
Component C contains iodine also so be careful to not overdose with another products.
You Can rise any micro by ComponentABC.

Join to us on to our Aquaforest Group at Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1490485151247025/

Regards,
Aquaforest

[2una]

Hello,
Component C contains iodine also so be careful to not overdose with another products.
You Can rise any micro by ComponentABC.

Join to us on to our Aquaforest Group at Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1490485151247025/

Regards,
Aquaforest

Ok Thanks...i'm going to slowly lift all components up till i get to happy I2 levels using that as the key indicator as i can test for it......Think i'm going to end up close to double recommended dosage doing this but will give it shot

[MichaelW]

When mixing my own component1+ with calcium, magnesium, and components a and v. It does not mix clear. Is this correct? Should it be stirred regularly to prevent any settling?

[Aquaforest]

When mixing my own component1+ with calcium, magnesium, and components a and v. It does not mix clear. Is this correct? Should it be stirred regularly to prevent any settling?

Calcium+ Magnesium and Strong A and B?
That dust inside is probably is Iron - From time to time We recommend to mix containers.

Regards,
Aquaforest

[MichaelW]

Yes sorry I meant strong a and b.
The container of pre mixed component 1+ I purchased was also cloudy. Like a little milky white and it does seem to settle on the bottom of my dosing container. Is this not normal?

[Aquaforest]

You can use this Container - do not be afraid.
You Can mix from time to time.

[SchnitzelReef]

As You Can see in our Guide (http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Aquaforest_Products-Guide_EN_sRGB_WEB.pdf)

There is few ways to dose Macro and Micro:

http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Balling-methode.png

http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/ballingmethod2.jpg

1 - Ca Plus, KH Plus, MG Plus (macro) + Component A, Component B, Component C(micro)
2 - Calcium, Magnesium, KH Buffer, Reef Mineral Salt ( Macro) + Components Strong (micro)
3- Calcium, Magnesium, KH Buffer, Reef Mineral Salt ( Macro) + Kalium, Iodum, Fluorine, Iron, Strontium, Micro E (micro)
4 - Component 1+2+3+

Every ways working the same - but Aquarist should find comfortable products for self:)


Regards,
Aquaforest



What about people using Calcium reactors?

My tank has very low nutrients, and I have been dealing with pale acros and slow growth. I recently started dosing potassium nitrate to raise nitrates to a detectable level. It has helped some, but not 100%. I am interested in trying your products, but what should I be dosing since I already have stable alk/Ca/Mag?

Thank you

[plyle02]

This depends on magnesium, are you buffering or running zeomag?

Either way, I would choose option 1, or option 3, depending on your parameters and how you prefer to dose.

[SchnitzelReef]

This depends on magnesium, are you buffering or running zeomag?

Either way, I would choose option 1, or option 3, depending on your parameters and how you prefer to dose.



I'm running zeomag in my reactor, but i find that if I go too long between water changes, I will manually dose mag. But it's not a weekly thing.

[plyle02]

Looks to me like trace supplementation is the way to go. I think a,b,c probably wise choice. If you like more control, option 3.

[aaron86]

Is anyone using this 3 part on a 65 sps lps if so how much are you dosing I'm trying to figure out if this is worth doing


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[plyle02]

Is anyone using this 3 part on a 65 sps lps if so how much are you dosing I'm trying to figure out if this is worth doing


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I am currently using 200ml per day on my 120 gallon all sps tank. So if a mature tank, somewhere around 1/2 I suppose :)

[aaron86]

Alright thanks


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[thegasman2000]

I have a 275 which I am just starting to add coral to. Currently I have 3 hard coral frags and will add more in time. I am using the bacteria products and looking at the most cost effective way of dosing Calcium Alk and Mag? I suspect I will not be dosing alot to start. I have a 3 head doser to use... What do you recommend? I dose nothing at the moment as just adding coral as it was fish only before.

[plyle02]

I have a 275 which I am just starting to add coral to. Currently I have 3 hard coral frags and will add more in time. I am using the bacteria products and looking at the most cost effective way of dosing Calcium Alk and Mag? I suspect I will not be dosing alot to start. I have a 3 head doser to use... What do you recommend? I dose nothing at the moment as just adding coral as it was fish only before.

Depending on the size of the corals water changes may be enough until you are fairly stocked and the corals are growing. Is that a 275 gallons, or 275 liters? I know Michael has a 200 or 220 gallon tank, he is using over 300ml per day of the componenet 123. He mixes his own to become more economical. I personally use the premix component 123 and I am going through 200ml at the moment, in my 120 gallon tank. So in a heavy stocked 275, it could be double what I am doing or more. Calcium reactor may work better with trace dosing, but it can be done :) Cheers

[thegasman2000]

Sorry UK here so 275 Litres... 275 Gallons is the dream :)

[plyle02]

OK,
The component system would be great for this size of a tank. Good thing is that mineral and trace are all covered in the 3 dosing 5L jugs ;) Cheers!

[thegasman2000]

Cool so I would dose the 3 parts with my doser and then add coral foods as and when i wanted?

[Geeray]

Can you dose parts 1&3 at the same time? I only have 2 relayed plugs on my apex and have found that the brs 1.1ml pumps have to be on the relayed ports or they keep running. I was thinking I could put parts 1 and 3 on one plug and part 2 on the second. Would this work?

[plyle02]

Cool so I would dose the 3 parts with my doser and then add coral foods as and when i wanted?

That is correct :) Cheers!

Can you dose parts 1&3 at the same time? I only have 2 relayed plugs on my apex and have found that the brs 1.1ml pumps have to be on the relayed ports or they keep running. I was thinking I could put parts 1 and 3 on one plug and part 2 on the second. Would this work?

I do not see any harm in this, however, if you can have your dosing lines in separate areas of the sump, that might be a better option to avoid precipitation. Maybe have one line near the return pump intake, and another line leading to where the water returns from the display, that is how I would do it :) Cheers

[Geeray]

That is correct :) Cheers!



I do not see any harm in this, however, if you can have your dosing lines in separate areas of the sump, that might be a better option to avoid precipitation. Maybe have one line near the return pump intake, and another line leading to where the water returns from the display, that is how I would do it :) Cheers

Thanks what I was thinking thanks for your input

[thirst]

If I am already using kalkwasser on my top off, does this just mean I would end up dosing slightly less 1,2,3, and that it is okay to continue to use my kalkwasser?

So let's assume that without Kalkwasser, I would be dosing 150ml, but with Kalkwasser I'm only dosing 100ml, would that create a compromise in the micronutrient perspective?

[plyle02]

Since the forumla is based on macro and micro elements, I would probably choose one or the other, if it were me. I am not sure how these would interact with one another and perhaps could cause interference. I am currently running a nano on kalk, and using some of the AF products, just as an experiment really. I have seen no problems with the way Pro Bio F and kalk interact, I am also using poweder food 2 times per week, Build, Aminomix, and Vitality. So far so good. If it were up to me, I would choose to ditch the kalk and go to the component system, I run it on my 120gallon tank and love it! Cheers

[Diesel3443]

What is the strength of the the Ca and Alk? I want to keep using my diy mix but add in reef mineral salt for the 3rd


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[Diesel3443]

Anyone? I just want to get the balling going. I already have some reef mineral salt

[plyle02]

Diesel,
I am not sure of the exact strength, but I am currently using component system 123 and had to increase again today, I am currently doing 220ml per day on my 120 gallon sps reef. I was previously using 2 part from Seachem Reef Fusion. I was dosing less than half, around 80ml of the 2part per day. Now keep in mind, that when I did try BRS 2 part, I was about double of the Seachem Fusion. So it is not as concentrated as other 2 parts I have used, but the impact on the colors of my corals has been noticeable. I hope this helps a bit, the instructions for mixing are mentioned by Michael, as he currently mixes his own balling components. In this thread I think he gave instruction that came with the products. Cheers!

[Diesel3443]

Hmm. Let me try and find it. I just want to make sure I am dosing the mineral salt in the balanced equation.

[cham]

I think Kalk is known for precipitating heavy metals while it's in solution in it's container. Since component 1,2,3 have such metals, if you're planning on continuing Kalk I'd make sure it's not being dosed at the same time in the same place in your sump.


Also, as I understand, AF 1,2,3 is designed to replace micro nutrients in the same ratio as the corals use KH & CA. If you're using a second source for the KH and CA you're not likely going to see the full benefit of the 1,2,3 micro's.

[plyle02]

I think Kalk is known for precipitating heavy metals while it's in solution in it's container. Since component 1,2,3 have such metals, if you're planning on continuing Kalk I'd make sure it's not being dosed at the same time in the same place in your sump.


Also, as I understand, AF 1,2,3 is designed to replace micro nutrients in the same ratio as the corals use KH & CA. If you're using a second source for the KH and CA you're not likely going to see the full benefit of the 1,2,3 micro's.

Nice point Charles!

[Diesel3443]

I think Kalk is known for precipitating heavy metals while it's in solution in it's container. Since component 1,2,3 have such metals, if you're planning on continuing Kalk I'd make sure it's not being dosed at the same time in the same place in your sump.


Also, as I understand, AF 1,2,3 is designed to replace micro nutrients in the same ratio as the corals use KH & CA. If you're using a second source for the KH and CA you're not likely going to see the full benefit of the 1,2,3 micro's.

Agreed. I am planning on adding components strong and I also already dose Micro E and Coral E that contain some micros

[westreef]

I think Kalk is known for precipitating heavy metals while it's in solution in it's container. Since component 1,2,3 have such metals, if you're planning on continuing Kalk I'd make sure it's not being dosed at the same time in the same place in your sump.


Also, as I understand, AF 1,2,3 is designed to replace micro nutrients in the same ratio as the corals use KH & CA. If you're using a second source for the KH and CA you're not likely going to see the full benefit of the 1,2,3 micro's.

Thanks Charles. it makes a lot of sense. I will remove kalk from my ATO water.

[plyle02]

Agreed. I am planning on adding components strong and I also already dose Micro E and Coral E that contain some micros

Diesel,
With use of Kalkwasser, I would suggest automating component abc. This would cover micro elements, while the kalk satisfies the macro elements. Personally, I would look into component 123 so that you have everything you need in 3 parts, this has been one of the best move I have made with my tank so far. Kind of like "set it and forget it" mentality :)

[Diesel3443]

Diesel,
With use of Kalkwasser, I would suggest automating component abc. This would cover micro elements, while the kalk satisfies the macro elements. Personally, I would look into component 123 so that you have everything you need in 3 parts, this has been one of the best move I have made with my tank so far. Kind of like "set it and forget it" mentality :)

I pulled the Kalk off recently, for some reason, my alk stays stable for a while, then jumps with it. I decided to move to 2 part. The only thing holding me back from the 1,2,3 is pricing. Diy two part is just too cheap, and I have a bunch of chemicals still left at home.

So right now, I am dosing CaCl , NaCO3, and Reef mineral salt.

I also am dosing

Micro E
Coral E
ProbioS (using vinegar for now, need to move to np Pro

Also running Zeo mix, Phos Minus, and Carbon

What would you suggest I add for micro elements I am missing?

[M007]

As my ESV CA/ALK/MG are just about out I am planning on refilling with comp 1-2-3. Any suggestions on adjusting the daily dosing? I've used 1 bucket of AF reef salt and now working my way through a bucket of AF probiotic.

[Magem]

Hi,
I am dosing 1,2,3 but I want to go for a cheaper option. I am thinking in buying Kh buffer, Ca, mineral salts and components strong to do it myself. However I want to do the same concentration as components 1,2,3 in order to keep stability. What amount of each part should I dose?
Thanks!


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[plyle02]

As my ESV CA/ALK/MG are just about out I am planning on refilling with comp 1-2-3. Any suggestions on adjusting the daily dosing? I've used 1 bucket of AF reef salt and now working my way through a bucket of AF probiotic.

Depending on your consumption rate, I would imagine you will need a bit more than ESV, so if you are currently dosing 50ml for example, I would start with 80ml and measure alk everyday at the same time to figure out consumption rate. As soon as you lock it in and know that the alk is holding steady from one day to the next, then that is your consumption rate to set the dosers. I currently use 220ml on my 120 gallon reef.
Cheers

Hi,
I am dosing 1,2,3 but I want to go for a cheaper option. I am thinking in buying Kh buffer, Ca, mineral salts and components strong to do it myself. However I want to do the same concentration as components 1,2,3 in order to keep stability. What amount of each part should I dose?


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For DIY balling, you would need:
AF KH Buffer
AF Calcium
AF Magnesium
Reef Mineral Salt
Component Strong

This requires 3 vessels to be mixed in, then dosed to reef in equal parts.

The mixing directions are here:

CONTAINER 1:
Aquaforest Calcium - Dissolve 50g in 1000ml of deionized water
Aquaforest Magnesium - Add 10g
Component A Strong - Add 5ml
Component B Strong - Add 5ml

CONTAINER 2:
Aquaforest KH Buffer - Dissolve 80g in 1000ml of deionized water
Component C Strong - Add 5ml

CONTAINER 3:
Aquaforest Reef Mineral Salt - Dissolve 25g in 1000ml of deionized water
Component K Strong - Add 5ml

[M007]

Thanks for the tip, it sounds like I'm in for lots of testing.

[Magem]

Many thanks!!!


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[carlosmos]

Any people use this option? I'm thinking to do it by myself next time


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[MichaelW]

I use it. Its the same as the premixed stuff.

[Diesel3443]

What are the ppm levels of
Aquaforest Calcium - Dissolve 50g in 1000ml of deionized water
Aquaforest KH Buffer - Dissolve 80g in 1000ml of deionized water

[Cyberdude]

Diesel,
I am not sure of the exact strength, but I am currently using component system 123 and had to increase again today, I am currently doing 220ml per day on my 120 gallon sps reef. I was previously using 2 part from Seachem Reef Fusion. I was dosing less than half, around 80ml of the 2part per day. Now keep in mind, that when I did try BRS 2 part, I was about double of the Seachem Fusion. So it is not as concentrated as other 2 parts I have used, but the impact on the colors of my corals has been noticeable. I hope this helps a bit, the instructions for mixing are mentioned by Michael, as he currently mixes his own balling components. In this thread I think he gave instruction that came with the products. Cheers!



Something doesn't make sense to me. In a 5l jug 220ml a day will only last 22 days. So that's 1050$ a year?

[plyle02]

Something doesn't make sense to me. In a 5l jug 220ml a day will only last 22 days. So that's 1050$ a year?

Yes, that is why I think I will eventually head in the direction of CARX :) Keep in mind that my tank has over 50 different acros, most are colonies too. So I do pull a heavy amount of the balling pre-mix. Cheers!

[MichaelW]

380ml per day here! It's why I don't get the premises stuff and mix my own with powders to cut back the cost a little. Haven't actually worked out how much it costs to make for example 5 gallons of each yourself to compare to the premixed but I'm sure it's less. Not sure I want to know the actual amount it's costing me per month. I might cry.

[plyle02]

380ml per day here! It's why I don't get the premises stuff and mix my own with powders to cut back the cost a little. Haven't actually worked out how much it costs to make for example 5 gallons of each yourself to compare to the premixed but I'm sure it's less. Not sure I want to know the actual amount it's costing me per month. I might cry.

After seeing pics of your tank, the last thing I would do is cry, lol... The premix is amazing on my reef, and the lack of cost in trace is something that is under-addressed. Not having to buy several bottles of various trace formulas is so understated in both pre-mix and DIY mix. Cheers Michael!!!

[MichaelW]

After seeing pics of your tank, the last thing I would do is cry, lol... The premix is amazing on my reef, and the lack of cost in trace is something that is under-addressed. Not having to buy several bottles of various trace formulas is so understated in both pre-mix and DIY mix. Cheers Michael!!!

Completely agree. Its great not having to dose any other trace for anything and knowing that as it's linked to consumption you shouldn't really be over dosing (or under dosing) anything.

[cham]

I'm with Perry, Im most likely to look at a Ca Rx soon or maybe even a kalk reactor to supplement along with the pre mix. I realize that using kalk won't allow all of the trace that will give the full benefit of the AF system but it's a lot better than what I've been doing and I can't justify high consumption costs to my accountant (wife)


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[Geeray]

Diesel,
I am not sure of the exact strength, but I am currently using component system 123 and had to increase again today, I am currently doing 220ml per day on my 120 gallon sps reef. I was previously using 2 part from Seachem Reef Fusion. I was dosing less than half, around 80ml of the 2part per day. Now keep in mind, that when I did try BRS 2 part, I was about double of the Seachem Fusion. So it is not as concentrated as other 2 parts I have used, but the impact on the colors of my corals has been noticeable. I hope this helps a bit, the instructions for mixing are mentioned by Michael, as he currently mixes his own balling components. In this thread I think he gave instruction that came with the products. Cheers!

I'm switching from BRS 2 part to the aqua forest 1,2,3 and I'm tying to get a feel for what the strength of the aquaforest system is so I can up with the folloing: I have an 180gal system so

From the BRS calculator 167ml of BRS soda ash mixture raises the Alk of 180gallons of water 1.3 dKh.

From the aquaforest website 50ml of component 2 raises the Alk of 100liters or water 1.3 dKh. Converting liter to gallons gives you 341ml of component 2 raises the Alk of 180 gallons 1.3 dKh

So assuming this is correct the aquaforest system is almost exactly half the strength of the BRS system. Could someone verify my math? Based on Pyle02s experience this seems to be correct. I'm just trying to get a starting point to switch over and any input would be appreciated.

[cham]

I went from BRS to AF 123 and found them to be identical in strength. I'm running the exact same dosage and alk has been holding steady


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[plyle02]

I agree they are fairly close, and I would use the same set point and test daily, if you see an increase in alk, lower it, if you see a decrease, then increase your dosage. I would recommend to simply measure alk and use it to determine you set point on the doser. I did so every morning at the same time to get an accurate test and absorption rate. But, as Cham stated, the values will likely be close :)

[Geeray]

I agree they are fairly close, and I would use the same set point and test daily, if you see an increase in alk, lower it, if you see a decrease, then increase your dosage. I would recommend to simply measure alk and use it to determine you set point on the doser. I did so every morning at the same time to get an accurate test and absorption rate. But, as Cham stated, the values will likely be close :)

Any idea where I went wrong with my calcs? Lol

[Diesel3443]

Personally, I would just start low and work your way up. I dont see anything wrong with your calc

[plyle02]

Personally, I would just start low and work your way up. I dont see anything wrong with your calc

Yes,
This is the best way. I started at 80ml and quickly that number grew. I am at now today 240ml. So I have seen my alk drop as low as 5.4 and zero issues with acros, it is now holding steady at 6.8dkh and that is exactly where I want to be. Calcium and Mag are totally inline based on the alk, 400 CA and 1260 Mag. The real benefit is the trace which absorbs at proper levels too. I will eventually get triton test and share. Cheers :)

[jimmys91]

Very interested if any one who has been using the 1,2,3 for any length of time has had a Triton done yet?

[plyle02]

I am fairly certain that Debora has had a triton test done, and while I think she has moved to a CARX, I think the response from users will be better if the question is posed here: Cheers

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1490485151247025/

[SchnitzelReef]

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee497/nickfrick66/A55590EC-7071-4B30-92D9-707AECE18836_zpswzuoafvf.jpg (http://s1230.photobucket.com/user/nickfrick66/media/A55590EC-7071-4B30-92D9-707AECE18836_zpswzuoafvf.jpg.html)

Wondering if using just these 3 products will make a difference. I might order CoralV. Gunna see how it goes first

[jimmys91]

[QUOTE=plyle02;24596750]I am fairly certain that Debora has had a triton test done, and while I think she has moved to a CARX, I think the response from users will be better if the question is posed here: Cheers

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1490485151247025/[/QUO


What is this CARX you speak of?

[plyle02]

Calcium Reactor, sorry I abbreviated :)

[Buzzword]

My question is about using Zeo mix. I use the AF Zeo mix/carbon/phos minus combo in my reactor. Is it still OK to use the AF balling method or just component strong to replace minerals? Where would the Reef Mineral salts come in to play? Same as Component strong?
General Zeo question, friend stated that Zeo strips nutrients I know but he said it strips bacteria as well and that I should dose ProbioS and NP pro as well if using Zeo. Anyone know if that is true?

[plyle02]

Hello,
To answer question regarding AF Zeomix with balling method, it is actually what I use. The method is AF Component 123, which is a balling lite version. This is unrelated to AF Zeomix as one is concerning mineral and trace, and the combo of the 3 medias is for controlling N&P. Yes, if you are using AF Zeomix, you should also be using Pro Bio S and NP Pro to maintain low nutrients. As far as Component Strong goes, it is to be used with the option of mixing your own components to yield the same effect as the pre-mixed formula of AF Component 123. May I also suggest use of AF Build, Energy, Vitality, and Aminomix, these help to maintain coloration of corals while the system runs very low nutrients. Hope this helps :)

[Buzzword]

Thanks Perry for answering. I figured that was the case but wanted to check. I am already using A, B, E, and V as well as Kalium with the components.

[Geeray]

Do I need to be concerned with the component 1,2,3 being degraded if it's stored in clear containers that are open to aquarium lights? Particularly the trace elements will they degrade in light?

[zeemofree]

Hello, To answer question regarding AF Zeomix with balling method, it is actually what I use. The method is AF Component 123, which is a balling lite version. This is unrelated to AF Zeomix as one is concerning mineral and trace, and the combo of the 3 medias is for controlling N&P. Yes, if you are using AF Zeomix, you should also be using Pro Bio S and NP Pro to maintain low nutrients. As far as Component Strong goes, it is to be used with the option of mixing your own components to yield the same effect as the pre-mixed formula of AF Component 123. May I also suggest use of AF Build, Energy, Vitality, and Aminomix, these help to maintain coloration of corals while the system runs very low nutrients. Hope this helps :)


How does the probiotic salt work with Zeovit products, such as Zeobak, and Zeostart?

[plyle02]

How does the probiotic salt work with Zeovit products, such as Zeobak, and Zeostart?

Hello,
I have no personal experience with AF Probiotic Reef Salt with use of Zeovit products, but since they use their own probiotic based system, I am not confident that it will blend well with their lineup. AF products for running the Probiotic based system are specifically designed for use with the Probiotic Reef Salt usually 10% change per week. To be safe, I would recommend using the Reef Salt, as it mixes at similar values, in terms of NSW values, and that way there is no interference with Zeovit's bac and carbon source with AF. Cheers!

[plyle02]

Do I need to be concerned with the component 1,2,3 being degraded if it's stored in clear containers that are open to aquarium lights? Particularly the trace elements will they degrade in light?

To be safe, you could always krylon paint the containers, and leave a strip un painted to be able to know fluid levels. I doubt there would be a concern, but I think it is always best to use caution. Cheers

[Cyberdude]

Are water changes required with component 123

[plyle02]

In theory no, but with the AF Probiotic based system, it is recommended to change 10% weekly with Probiotic Reef Salt. Cheers!

[zeemofree]

Hello, I have no personal experience with AF Probiotic Reef Salt with use of Zeovit products, but since they use their own probiotic based system, I am not confident that it will blend well with their lineup. AF products for running the Probiotic based system are specifically designed for use with the Probiotic Reef Salt usually 10% change per week. To be safe, I would recommend using the Reef Salt, as it mixes at similar values, in terms of NSW values, and that way there is no interference with Zeovit's bac and carbon source with AF. Cheers!

Thanks,

[M007]

1 week into complete dosing re-do, did a complete wash and rinse replacing ESV CA/ALK/MG with AF 1-2-3. There is definitely something to this AF product, results are most interesting in a good way :)

[Geeray]

I just started the component 1,2,3 a few days ago. When the lights came on today I noticed my forest fire Monti looked irritated. I ran some test and found the following:

Kh 7.7 (been here for months)
Cal 430 (been here for months)
Mag 1350 (been here for months)
Potassium 470 (use to be closer to 440)

I'm not suggesting the component 1,2,3 is responsible for the increase. I think it might be my batch of IO salt. I assume it should be safe to not run component 3 for a while while the potassium level lowers? Do you think potassium being at 470 could irritate the forest fire Monti? All other sps seem uneffected. I'm going to test a fresh batch of mixed IO water to see if it's the culprit

[Geeray]

Tested the IO salt and the potassium is 430 so that can't be it. Must have been the salifert trace hard I was dosing? I discontinued the trace hard once I saw niggles triton results... In any case I want to suspend dosing component 3 until the potassium level comes down a bit unless I shouldn't do that for some reason. What do you think?

[plyle02]

Tested the IO salt and the potassium is 430 so that can't be it. Must have been the salifert trace hard I was dosing? I discontinued the trace hard once I saw niggles triton results... In any case I want to suspend dosing component 3 until the potassium level comes down a bit unless I shouldn't do that for some reason. What do you think?


I believe the best thing to do is water changes, but IO is higher in alk, you should look into the AF Reef Salt, it mixes closer to NSW values, and is a high quality salt that is easy on the budget. Either way, I prefer water changes to reset my values, the downside to discontinue dosing is that the benefit of Reef Mineral Salts not being there to help balance all the ions. It is possible, but I would look to w/c's if it were my tank, I use the Component 123 system and love the balance, I don't think I would want to risk interrupting this. Also, what test kit are you using to measure K? Cheers

[Geeray]

I believe the best thing to do is water changes, but IO is higher in alk, you should look into the AF Reef Salt, it mixes closer to NSW values, and is a high quality salt that is easy on the budget. Either way, I prefer water changes to reset my values, the downside to discontinue dosing is that the benefit of Reef Mineral Salts not being there to help balance all the ions. It is possible, but I would look to w/c's if it were my tank, I use the Component 123 system and love the balance, I don't think I would want to risk interrupting this. Also, what test kit are you using to measure K? Cheers

I used a Salifert kit for potassium. Do you think potassium being at 470 would irritate a forest fire monti?

Af's salt is probiotic? What exactly does that mean? Could I use the salt and the component 1,2,3 without needing anything else? I don't want to use any salt that would simulate carbon dosing as my nutrients are already where I want them without carbon dosing.

[plyle02]

I used a Salifert kit for potassium. Do you think potassium being at 470 would irritate a forest fire monti?

Af's salt is probiotic? What exactly does that mean? Could I use the salt and the component 1,2,3 without needing anything else? I don't want to use any salt that would simulate carbon dosing as my nutrients are already where I want them without carbon dosing.

Stay with Reef Salt then, the Probiotic salt contains bacteria and aminos. This would not be good for what you are looking for. IME with digi, they are usually pretty hardy, and while your K is a bit high, I doubt that is the contributing factor. I would just do a couple of large water changes, keep an eye on that digi though :)

[kainic]

I'd like to try the DIY mix for the macroelements but I need to know the "power" of the solution.

AF Guide says 10g of Ca will increase 35ppm in 100 litres. If we do the math it means we have to add 200ml (50gr in 1000ml for the mix) in 100 litres to increase calcium by 35ppm. That's quite a big volume for that small increase!

I'd like AF to tell us how much will calcium increase (in ppm) if we add for instance, 10ml of the mother mix to 100 litres.

I think it's a bit confusing the info we get form the guide, at least for me.

TIA

Sergi

[nemodan]

Hi Perry

I am thinking on moving to the AF 123. I have the Neptune DOS dosing pumps. They are only 2 pumps, that i will continue using for Alk (comp 1 ? ) and for Ca (Comp 2).

For the Mag part (Comp 3 ?) I will have tu use a BRS peristaltic pump.

Alk and Ca will be dosed apart some minutes to avoid any chancechance if precipitation. BUT for Mag it will be very dificult for me to sincronize a BRS peristaltic pump with the DOS system.

So the questions are :

Do i have to dose the Mag far away of where Alk and Ca are being dosed ? OR there is no risk if i dose Mg nearby the Alk and Ca and , if it happens to be dosed at the same time/moment of the Alk or Ca there will NOT BE any precipitation or anything negative ?

Thank you !!!
Daniel

Another one: can i continue with my 10% weekly WC also if i dose 123 ?

Thanks again !!

[plyle02]

Hi Perry

I am thinking on moving to the AF 123. I have the Neptune DOS dosing pumps. They are only 2 pumps, that i will continue using for Alk (comp 1 ? ) and for Ca (Comp 2).

For the Mag part (Comp 3 ?) I will have tu use a BRS peristaltic pump.

Alk and Ca will be dosed apart some minutes to avoid any chancechance if precipitation. BUT for Mag it will be very dificult for me to sincronize a BRS peristaltic pump with the DOS system.

So the questions are :

Do i have to dose the Mag far away of where Alk and Ca are being dosed ? OR there is no risk if i dose Mg nearby the Alk and Ca and , if it happens to be dosed at the same time/moment of the Alk or Ca there will NOT BE any precipitation or anything negative ?

Thank you !!!
Daniel

Another one: can i continue with my 10% weekly WC also if i dose 123 ?

Thanks again !!

Hey Daniel,
Good to hear about making the switch, my reef has exploded since starting with the AF Component 123. Here is what is in each component in the 3 5Liter jugs, this is not the same formulas as traditional 2 part system, it is formulated differently. Here are the ingredients:

AF Component 1- 230ml per day contains: Ca, Mg, Sr, Ba, Co, Mn, Cu, Fe, Zn, Ni, Cr

*AF Component 2- 230ml per day- contains: NaHCO3, F, I

*AF Component 3- 230ml per day- contains: mineral salts and K, Bo.

Take note that Ca and Mag are in the same container in Component 1, Component 2 controls mostly alk, and Component 3 is mainly Reef Mineral Salt, to help buffer the minerals and trace. That said, as long as you are dosing equal amounts of all 3 in a 24 hour period or interval, that should be ok. Try not and let the elements mix in the same general water in the sump, for this you may need to place hoses in different parts of the sump, that should work ok without precipitation. My doser does these split by 5 minutes, and every hour it delivers all 3. Let me know if you have any additional questions :) Cheers Daniel!

[Geeray]

I can confirm the starting point for dosing is similar to BRSs bulk ingredients. Still no idea why my calculations were off... Lol

[MichaelW]

Daniiel you will be doing basically the same as me. i have a dos dosing comp1 (calcium& mag) the other dos head will be for alk. for reef mineral salt it is set up on my old jebao doser so sometimes it may happen close to a dose of the other components... never seen an issue with it.

[Geeray]

Well I've been runing the component 1,2,3 for 2 weeks now and have been testing Alk daily. Just like others have reported around the 2 week mark my consumption has dirastically jumped. I'm now using double the dose I started with...

[plyle02]

Well I've been runing the component 1,2,3 for 2 weeks now and have been testing Alk daily. Just like others have reported around the 2 week mark my consumption has dirastically jumped. I'm now using double the dose I started with...

Wait until your corals start taking off with noticeable growth, than you will have to increase again ;) Cheers

[Cyberdude]

Wait until your corals start taking off with noticeable growth, than you will have to increase again ;) Cheers



I've been noticing the same thing. I was at 80 ml a day. That was three weeks ago. I'm at 130ml a day now. Crazy.

[MichaelW]

Up 2 380ml a day here and will probably have to increase it again here soon. Have not tested in a few days.

[nemodan]

Daniiel you will be doing basically the same as me. i have a dos dosing comp1 (calcium& mag) the other dos head will be for alk. for reef mineral salt it is set up on my old jebao doser so sometimes it may happen close to a dose of the other components... never seen an issue with it.

Thank you Michael for the tip !!!!

Daniel

[Cyberdude]

What would I need to make my own component 1-2-3 from the dry stuff. Btw I've never seen sps grow in my tank since I've started using this. Amazing and thank you!!!

I'm consuming roughly 144 ml of each a day. So the ready made liquid won't last very long. And I find myself adjust the dose higher every week (10ml) as the sps grow.

[plyle02]

@ Cyberdude,
LOL, I am in the process of mixing my own right now. You will need AF Calcium, AF Magnesium, AF KH Buffer, AF Reef Mineral Salt, and AF Component Strong(4 small bottles in each pack, each 50ml, which is Component A Strong, B, Strong, C Strong, and K Strong) Here is the breakdown:

Bottle 1:
AF Calcium~ 50 grams per 1 liter
AF Magnesium~ 10 grams per 1 liter
Component A Strong~ 5ml per 1 liter
Component B Strong~ 5ml per 1 liter

Bottle 2:
AF KH Buffer~ 80 grams per 1 liter
Component C Strong~ 5ml per 1 liter

Bottle 3:
AF Reef Mineral Salt~ 25 grams per 1 liter
Component K Strong~ 5ml per 1 liter

* I use the the premix bottles as to re-use the product, they are all 5 liter bottles, so I multiply values times 5

Cheers :)

[plyle02]

@ Cyberdude,
LOL, I am in the process of mixing my own right now. You will need AF Calcium, AF Magnesium, AF KH Buffer, AF Reef Mineral Salt, and AF Component Strong(4 small bottles in each pack, each 50ml, which is Component A Strong, B, Strong, C Strong, and K Strong) Here is the breakdown:

Bottle 1:
AF Calcium~ 50 grams per 1 liter
AF Magnesium~ 10 grams per 1 liter
Component A Strong~ 5ml per 1 liter
Component B Strong~ 5ml per 1 liter

Bottle 2:
AF KH Buffer~ 80 grams per 1 liter
Component C Strong~ 5ml per 1 liter

Bottle 3:
AF Reef Mineral Salt~ 25 grams per 1 liter
Component K Strong~ 5ml per 1 liter

* I use the the premix bottles as to re-use the product, they are all 5 liter bottles, so I multiply values times 5

Cheers :)

FYI,
I use a digital scale that measures in grams, if you go to the AF Product Guide download, there is also measurements to gallons, using standard measuring cups and tablespoons to assist. Cheers :)

[flananuts]

Quick check on for thoughts on the thread. I've been running component 1,2,3 now for 3 months. My coral load is small still with a mixed reef of SPS,LPS, a leather, shrooms and zoas. Alk is 7.3 via Hanna checker, phosphate is .03 via Hanna, nitrate undetectable via ELOS, and Ca 480 via Red Sea titration. SG is 1.026. Everything seems to be happy with growth albeit slow it would seem. I have had to slowly increase my dosing to keep alk above 7. I have an ecotech radion gen2 30w with TIR lenses on my reefer 170 running Ecotech's program recommendations for mixed reef lighting. Having never kept SPS and understanding all are differed in growth, what type of growth per month should I be getting? My LPS are growing slowly, shrooms and zoas are splitting and my Cali tort has encrusted and is growing. Two other acro's show growth at their tips but it seems small. Not sure if I'm missing something or if I should relax and eat a snickers bar.


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[Cyberdude]

FYI,

I use a digital scale that measures in grams, if you go to the AF Product Guide download, there is also measurements to gallons, using standard measuring cups and tablespoons to assist. Cheers :)



Thanks for the formula!
If it's all dry stuff it would be great if it came pre mixed and we would just need to add water lol.

[plyle02]

Quick check on for thoughts on the thread. I've been running component 1,2,3 now for 3 months. My coral load is small still with a mixed reef of SPS,LPS, a leather, shrooms and zoas. Alk is 7.3 via Hanna checker, phosphate is .03 via Hanna, nitrate undetectable via ELOS, and Ca 480 via Red Sea titration. SG is 1.026. Everything seems to be happy with growth albeit slow it would seem. I have had to slowly increase my dosing to keep alk above 7. I have an ecotech radion gen2 30w with TIR lenses on my reefer 170 running Ecotech's program recommendations for mixed reef lighting. Having never kept SPS and understanding all are differed in growth, what type of growth per month should I be getting? My LPS are growing slowly, shrooms and zoas are splitting and my Cali tort has encrusted and is growing. Two other acro's show growth at their tips but it seems small. Not sure if I'm missing something or if I should relax and eat a snickers bar.

Yep, snickers bar, as long as you see encrusting, and visual growth at tips, that is great. Many sps and acros mind you, do not do anything until they encrust, then bam, you get a growth spurt, patience with sps, and do not let your alk shift too much in values. If you are raising your daily dosage, then that is a sign of growth. Enjoy the snickers bar, lol :)


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[Cyberdude]

Another 10ml a day. This stuff is crazy. Up to 15 doses at 13 ml a day.

[flananuts]

Thanks! Getting a bunch of new frags from bayondai tomorrow, will have to monitor alk.


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[plyle02]

Another 10ml a day. This stuff is crazy. Up to 15 doses at 13 ml a day.

I have only been checking weekly, and every week the same result, I have not had to bump mine up in several weeks. You will rise on your levels and then eventually it dials in, once it does so, your changes in bumping up will slow down... Cheers

[Cyberdude]

I have only been checking weekly, and every week the same result, I have not had to bump mine up in several weeks. You will rise on your levels and then eventually it dials in, once it does so, your changes in bumping up will slow down... Cheers



I can't wait for that to happen lol

[M007]

Went from 140ml of ESV to 200ml of 1-2-3 per day to maintain same values of DKH 6.4-CA 370-MG1280. It took 3 weeks to get there, started with 100ml of 1-2-3 week one. Bumped to 140ml week two, bumped 200ml week three. I hope to settle at DKH 7.5-CA 425-MG 1350. I also water change 100G a week using AF reef salt. Planning to hold dosing amounts for 7 days with continued WC at the current interval and see values then. Side note; this product is hard to purchase locally here in Toronto, Canada. AF might want to look into that as Amazon.ca is hit or miss. Won't be able to get another couple of 1-2-3 packs until middle/end of August :(

[fessoclown]

Went from 140ml of ESV to 200ml of 1-2-3 per day to maintain same values of DKH 6.4-CA 370-MG1280. It took 3 weeks to get there, started with 100ml of 1-2-3 week one. Bumped to 140ml week two, bumped 200ml week three. I hope to settle at DKH 7.5-CA 425-MG 1350. I also water change 100G a week using AF reef salt. Planning to hold dosing amounts for 7 days with continued WC at the current interval and see values then. Side note; this product is hard to purchase locally here in Toronto, Canada. AF might want to look into that as Amazon.ca is hit or miss. Won't be able to get another couple of 1-2-3 packs until middle/end of August :(

I have been waiting for Aquatic Kingdom to reopen.... they carry AF everything but have moved.... they should be open soon.... I hope...

[Ricky101uk]

Hope someone can help, I started dosing aquaforest 1+2+3+ at 100ml each a day in my 260lt tank, I have now dropped that to 60ml a day as my mg is now at 1800 but ca is only 400. With them both together in 1+ I'm not sure how to balance it

[elviraveloz]

Are you dosing accordingly to alkalinity consumption. What's your alkalinity?

[plyle02]

Have you double checked the test vs. another? I use Salifert and I have noticed towards the end of it's life, it gives me whacky readings. Just something to consider, I have used Component 123 for several months and have not found it to increase mag, is it possible it was high when starting the Component 123? What type of corals are you housing, and also, what is your alk readking? Another important parameter to provide us is what is your S.G. and how often are you doing water changes, and with what salt. Just some additional information that could be useful to know. Thanks!

[Cyberdude]

What containers do you dose your 1-2-3 from? I have my flexible dosing line in the bottle but I'm not sure it is touching the bottom or curling up.

[plyle02]

I use hard plastic tubing, usually available as most LFS, I then connect with airline tubing which works perfect. I use the same bottles the Component 123 comes in, just easier and less opportunity to confuse:)

[Cyberdude]

I use hard plastic tubing, usually available as most LFS, I then connect with airline tubing which works perfect. I use the same bottles the Component 123 comes in, just easier and less opportunity to confuse:)



Good idea

[Geeray]

Man this component 1,2,3 is like crack for sps. I've been using it for over a month and my Alk consumption has tripled what is was a month ago. I can't even believe the difference!

[Cyberdude]

Man this component 1,2,3 is like crack for sps. I've been using it for over a month and my Alk consumption has tripled what is was a month ago. I can't even believe the difference!



Seriously. Same experience. I'm testing alk daily because of it.

[Cyberdude]

Is it possible that I can't maintain alk. I'm increasing dosing 180ml a day and all still drops. I supplement to bring alk to 9 and increased my dosing from 80ml a day 5 weeks ago to 180 today. And still alk drops from 9 to 7.3 in two days. Using complement 1-2-3 pre mixed

[ClearwaterUK]

coral are growing well then

[Cyberdude]

coral are growing well then



Understatement.

[Cyberdude]

I can't find kh buffer in Canada. For the recipe below. Can I replace it with baking soda in the mean time? http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160818/0b44a22f3bd51d58e436c55f647626a1.jpg

[CBlair]

Yeah kh buffer is tough to find in canada right now but amazon just got a bit of stock in on the 123 in jugs. Mine arrived today

[Cyberdude]

I got the jugs today as well. If I can substitute the kh buffer with baking soda for now I'll be happy. I can't keep up with the tanks demand. Goes up every few days

[Jimmy75]

Can I self mix kh plus using kh buffer & RODI water?

[Jimmy75]

Can I self mix kh plus using kh buffer & RODI water?
Anyone?

[plyle02]

Yes, you can mix KH Buffer into a liquid for dosing, just like KH Plus. This would be simply a control for alk only. Cheers

[Jimmy75]

Yes, you can mix KH Buffer into a liquid for dosing, just like KH Plus. This would be simply a control for alk only. Cheers
Thanks!

Is it 80g per 1000ml of RODI? After that the dosing amount can follow KH Plus recommendation? 10ml of solution increase 0.5dKH per 100 litres.

[sk8elenex92]

Hey All. I've been debating on switching my tank to AF. Looks like every one is having great results. There is just so many different ways of doing this I am not sure where to start. I currently dose 40mL of ALK and CAL. From that I get a drop of about .5 dkh a day. For ALK I use baking soda baked, and BRS for Calcium. How would I figure out how much I need of Component 1 2 3? Do I just start with like 100ml and test every morning and see what happens. Adjust from there?

Current parameters are
A 7.8
C 420
M 1500 Little high not sure why
Phos .02
Nitra 0

Is there any other option for dosing if I already have my ALK and Cal dosing figured out with Baking Soda and BRS? I only have a two head dosing pump so I would have to buy a BRS one if I did Comp123.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also calculated how much I can get out of mixing by my self and this is what I came up with hopefully helps others. This is based off using 5 liter jugs just like they come from AF Comp123.

Reusing 5 Liter component 123 JUGS

Bottle 1:
AF Calcium~ 250 grams per 5 liter USES 4 $11
AF Magnesium~ 50 grams per 5 liter USES 15 $11
Component A Strong~ 25ml per 5 liter USES 2 Part of package $28
Component B Strong~ 25ml per 5 liter USES 2 Part of package $28

Bottle 2:
AF KH Buffer~ 400 grams per 5 liter USES 3 $11
Component C Strong~ 25ml per 5 liter USES 2 Part of package $28

Bottle 3:
AF Reef Mineral Salt~ 125 grams per 5 liter USES 6.4 $11
Component K Strong~ 25ml per 5 liter USES 2 Part of package $28

Total $72 to make your own and will last at least two jugs and have many other things left over. Instead of paying $50 you get them for $36 if you make it your self. Would probably be cheaper if you buy the bigger sizes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[cham]

Myself and other members have found AF 123 components pretty close to identical to BRS products as far as dosing.

Mine is spot on ML wise


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[Mr.Fishtank]

Just sat down and did some math to see what I should start at with the 1-2-3 dosing.
Here are my findings. I currently use esv two part and my tank uses 1.02 dkh per day. I dose 41 ml of each. For every 4 ml dosed my dkh raises .1

So.. For my 95 gal total water volume system my AF dose will be 147 ml for each component.

My advice to those wanting to know how much to add per day. Find out the dkh consumption per day.

154 ml of AF will raise the dkh by 1.0 per 100 gallons.
15.4 ml will raise dkh by .1

[kevlow]

Just sat down and did some math to see what I should start at with the 1-2-3 dosing.
Here are my findings. I currently use esv two part and my tank uses 1.02 dkh per day. I dose 41 ml of each. For every 4 ml dosed my dkh raises .1

So.. For my 95 gal total water volume system my AF dose will be 147 ml for each component.

My advice to those wanting to know how much to add per day. Find out the dkh consumption per day.

154 ml of AF will raise the dkh by 1.0 per 100 gallons.
15.4 ml will raise dkh by .1

Good idea getting your consumption rate first.

I just took a guess and tested twice a day, then adjusted accordingly. Wasn't spot on at first but had it dialed in quickly.

I was dosing 50ml alk and 30ml cal of ESV two part, To stay around 7.3 dkh in a 65g system. I am currently at 150ml each of comp123 to stay around 7.3.

[rchavez]

Hey guys, I have a 65 gal rimless (75 gal with sump) that I currently does 40ml of ESV B Ionic 2 part to keep at 7-7.5Alk. I have purchased Comp 123 and I am about to start dosing. What do you recommend as a starting dosing amount in ml?
Thanks!

[kevlow]

Hey guys, I have a 65 gal rimless (75 gal with sump) that I currently does 40ml of ESV B Ionic 2 part to keep at 7-7.5Alk. I have purchased Comp 123 and I am about to start dosing. What do you recommend as a starting dosing amount in ml?
Thanks!
I have approximately the same system with about 65/70 gallons total.I was dosing 50ml alk and 30 ml cal of ESV two part.
I started at 50ml each of 123. It wasn't enough. Plus stuff started growing faster. I increased gradually. My numbers rose to 150ml, steady, then jumped again to 180ml a day of each. That is where I am at now.

I try to stay at 7.3 dkh

[iLLwiLL]

Myself and other members have found AF 123 components pretty close to identical to BRS products as far as dosing.

Mine is spot on ML wise

Has anyone tried using BRS 2 part and mag combined with strong and mineral salts to make component 1+2+3+?? I have a bunch of BRS stuff lying around and would love for it to not go to waste when I switch over.

[642642]

Has anyone tried using BRS 2 part and mag combined with strong and mineral salts to make component 1+2+3+?? I have a bunch of BRS stuff lying around and would love for it to not go to waste when I switch over.

I would like to know about this as well.

[iLLwiLL]

Also, I noticed there is no component K for sale individually (like AB&C), is buying component strong the only way to get component K, or is it just kallium?

Eventually I'd like to have a 15 gallon tall sectioned off into 3 parts under my stand for roughly 15L reservoirs of each component and I'm looking for the most economical way to do so.

[Felixc]

Aquaforest :

I find the concentration of Component 123 solution is a bit too light for my use and wondering if it's OK to double the amount of each element to make it twice as strong to reduce the frequency mixing new batches. Below is what what I would mix into three 4L containers.

Bottle 1:
AF Calcium~ 100 grams per 1 liter
AF Magnesium~ 20 grams per 1 liter
Component A Strong~ 10ml per 1 liter
Component B Strong~ 10ml per 1 liter

Bottle 2:
AF KH Buffer~ 160 grams per 1 liter
Component C Strong~ 10ml per 1 liter

Bottle 3:
AF Reef Mineral Salt~ 50 grams per 1 liter
Component K Strong~ 10ml per 1 liter


*** KH buffer is currently not available in CANADA, when do you expect it to be in stock? In the meantime, would it be OK to use baking soda as a substitute?****

[CIR2000]

I will start to using in the next days "Component 1+2+3"... but if I want adjust Ca, Mg and KH is correct to use "Ca Plus", "Mg Plus" and "KH Plus" ?

Thanks

[Aquaforest]

I will start to using in the next days "Component 1+2+3"... but if I want adjust Ca, Mg and KH is correct to use "Ca Plus", "Mg Plus" and "KH Plus" ?

Thanks

Yes. Correct - or Calcium,Magnesium,KH Buffer.
Component 1+2+3+ should be dosed in equal dosage.

[CIR2000]

Yes. Correct - or Calcium,Magnesium,KH Buffer.

Component 1+2+3+ should be dosed in equal dosage.



Could be possible to use transparent bottles for the 3 liquids (Component 1+2+3) ?


Sent from my iPhone

[Alfrareef]

I thought 123 was to regulate the Ca,Mg and KH... let's go aquaforest website again...

[plyle02]

Could be possible to use transparent bottles for the 3 liquids (Component 1+2+3) ?


Sent from my iPhone

Yes, as long as there is not too much light, that should be ok.

I thought 123 was to regulate the Ca,Mg and KH... let's go aquaforest website again...

Correct plus trace.

[CIR2000]

In combination with the Component 1+2+3 which salt of the Aquaforest line is better to use ?

[plyle02]

Probiotic is designed to use with the Probiotic based program. Otherwise, both Probiotic and Reef Salt are similarly formulated.
Cheers

[Mr.Fishtank]

Perry.

I started using AF products about a month ago, and my corals started losing a lot of color.
Mainly greens but also reds. Had one of my dark maroon acro's with a green base completely loose all of the green and the maroon is now a pale pinkish white.

As I like to start off slow when changing things I only used a 1/4 of the recommended amount of all products.

reef salt, phos minus, carbon, zeomix, and all of the supplements a,v,e,b.
2 drops each of bac and carbon source.
Using vertex 1.5 lt zeo reactor and only ran it at 60gph
Alk- 7.7
Cal-415
Mag-1380
PO4- 0.0-0.04
NO3- 4

On a side note. I have never ran carbon though a reactor. Always passive in a filter bag.
Any thoughts? I pulled the reactor out 2 days ago and already see an improvment. So something wasn't right. Thanks

[plyle02]

Depending on your fish load, how often you feed, and your skimmer's ability to process the nutrients, you maybe do not need Zeo Mix at this time. While the stack method is great, it really works best when the user has a high bioload. I would always have carbon in a carbon/bac driven system, as far as I know, sort of a staple. Double check the skimmer, make sure it is pulling dry skimm as well. Sounds like your nutrients are lowering, so the corals are making adjustments, the pigments should return, but you will see tones a bit lighter, those deep dark saturated colors will pull back, but what you seem to be experiencing is paling of corals due to lack of food, so I would feed the fish more, and continue dosing to maintain low values. Cheers

[Mr.Fishtank]

Thank you Perry.
I have a Reefer 450 display with 14 fish. Most of which are small but have two 5-6 in tangs. I thought that would be the top of a bio load recommendation for a 90. As for the zeomix. Last night I put the reactor back online but only using zeomix in it.

I did not know that you had to run AC with a bac system. But will take your advice and use it but in a filter bag in the sump. And will look at my skimmer and skim drier.

[Mr.Fishtank]

If you had a 95 gallon total water volume. What amount of the AF products would you start with? And or how much did you start with and I can take 20% from that? Right now I am dosing 3 drops of carbon and bac. 3 drops of a,v every odd day and e,b every even day.
When I started the reactor the first time I used 150ml zeomix 100ml of carbon and 100ml of phosminus. Last night when I put the reactor back online I put in 300ml zeomix. I am also doing what zeovit instructions state and running it on for 3hrs then off for 3hrs ect... at a flow rate of 50 gph. Hopefully this will help ease the system into it.

Can you pump these stones like zeovit's to release the mulm?
Sorry for all the Q's. But if you don't ask you will never learn.

[CIR2000]

Probiotic is designed to use with the Probiotic based program. Otherwise, both Probiotic and Reef Salt are similarly formulated.
Cheers

If I understood well is better to use reef salt ! Correct ?

[Alfrareef]

Hi guys,

I'm dosing FM (Ca,Mg,KH) with Traces 123 and was thinking about using some Aquaforest products to push a little coral growth and colors.
For now I'm just coral food (AF Power food) 3 times per week and was thinking trying to dose AF Energy.
Can you please give me your thoughts about this intention. Is it useless, it's good, it's harmful?

TIA,
AR

[cham]

I found a brownish/ redish slime in my component 1 today. It's free floating in the bucket and attached to the airline tube. Is this something to be concerned about?

My corals have been looking bad lately and I'm wondering if this could be the culprit

[Mr.Fishtank]

I haven't seen anything in my comp 1 or 2. But comp 3 does not dissolve all the crystals. With some of us having bad issues with their products I'm thinking that we are getting contaminated or bad batches. Maybe quality control is lacking and that some component's were overdosed with something. Just my thought.

[Mr.Fishtank]

Post correction. Comp 1 is not dissolving. 2 and 3 seem fine.

[CIR2000]

Usually I have in my Sump the coal, which I change every 15 days. I'm using Aquaforest "Component 1+2+3" is correct using constantly the coal in Sump ?


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

[Mr.Fishtank]

Usually I have in my Sump the coal, which I change every 15 days. I'm using Aquaforest "Component 1+2+3" is correct using constantly the coal in Sump ?


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

If your referring to the GAC then yes you can have it in a media bag placed in the sump. If this is you first time using GAC I would start with 1/8-1/4 of the recommended amount to not strip your system too fast.

[CIR2000]

If your referring to the GAC then yes you can have it in a media bag placed in the sump. If this is you first time using GAC I would start with 1/8-1/4 of the recommended amount to not strip your system too fast.


I'm sorry but I do not know what is the GAC ! I'm using this...


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161017/d2861e3c76fef7b67a2661d984a62aa7.png

and... I use the recommended quantity every 15 days. I'm doing it wrong ?


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

[bobssecrtsn]

I'm sorry but I do not know what is the GAC ! I'm using this...


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161017/d2861e3c76fef7b67a2661d984a62aa7.png

and... I use the recommended quantity every 15 days. I'm doing it wrong ?


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

that is carbon, gac is the same but removes more DOCS with less. kinda like alittle goes a long ways

[Alfrareef]

Hi guys,
Started to use some AF products. ABE and would like to know If we should store the bottles in the fridge.
Please help.
Rgds,
AR

[plyle02]

No it is not necessary to refrigerate :)

[ivanotas]

Only a few like coral a,v,b,e are required.

[Alfrareef]

Guys!! I'm confused.
I'm using those (Amino mix, Build and Energy) and about to start Vitality...
How to store?

[plyle02]

Store them at room temp, in most cases that should be just fine. I store my Pro Bio S in the fridge, although not necessary :)

[Alfrareef]

Thks plyle. I'll follow that.
Sorry for the dumb question, but it was recently I've decided to try some of AF products (ABVE only) and couldn't find good information. It seems everyone his repeating the 4-5 sentences AF has written about it....
if these drops work I'll perhaps start with other products, Pro Bio S and/or Probiotic salt even if I don't want to turn off my UV and Ozone. Can you give me your thoughts about this approach?

[BB215]

Can one use natural salt water with component 1+2+3+ ?

[Aquaforest]

Yes.

[kainic]

Can one use natural salt water with component 1+2+3+ ?
What about not NaCl free salts?

[Aquaforest]

Component3+ contais NaCl Free salt - Reef Mineral Salt.

[Alfrareef]

I'm lost... lots of stuff and increase difficulty to understand the basics. It starts to remind me why I didn't go with other brand...
Question for Aquaforest: can I replace my FM 3 components dosing with Component 1+2+3?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ClearwaterUK]

I'm lost... lots of stuff and increase difficulty to understand the basics. It starts to remind me why I didn't go with other brand...
Question for Aquaforest: can I replace my FM 3 components dosing with Component 1+2+3?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you mean the "Balling Lite" from FM than yes you can replace it with 123 from AF

[Alfrareef]

Yes, it's balling lite. 3 salts+3 Traces.
Great! Thanks for the info.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Martin Kuhn]

Knowing what is inside for lots of pieces in FM Balling Light, I strongly disagree

AF 1 2 3 is definitely different to FM Balling Light.

Just saying it has also 3 components and also has traces is by sure no proof

- concentrations and mix of balling salt is different
- how to dose Mg according your consumption with AF 1 2 3 ?
- traces AF must not be traces FM


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

[GoVols]

I agree with Martin L.

AF Component 1+ 2+ 3+ is based off the "Full Balling" method.

"Lite Balling" was developed for better stability over "Full Balling Salts".

[GoVols]

I meant Martin K...

Is anyone using Component 1+ 2+ 3+ with other salt mixes other than AF and have all 3 parts equal out evenly on their daily doses per part?

I wanted to keep using Component 1+ 2+ 3+ when I switched back to Reef Crystals. Deep Water Aquatics told me the 3 components who only even out this AF or Tropic Marin salt mixes.

[Alfrareef]

Guys! I'm back in trouble. And mostly by my fault.... tried to simplify.
So please allow me to elaborate more.
I currently use FM balling light and have obtained KH, Ca, Mg stability but nothing notable over corals growth and coloring.
So I've started doing some experiments with AF ABVE and not sure if it was a cumulative or single effect but the corals have started to show some growth and better colors.
The next experiment I was thinking was to replace the 3 containers content with AF Componente 1+2+3 but when started to study I found no coherent info about that so decide to address the question: can I do that expecting to maintain the same stability?
Thanks for your help.

[Martin Kuhn]

Hi again Alfrareef

1.) i don't think that changing from FM Balling Light to AF 1+ 2+ 3+ will improve your corals colours.
If you managed to adapted Balling Light to match Ca, Alk and Mg, it is close to a perfect system for LPS/SPS, once you deliver 2 things
- good nutrient levels (NO3 and PO4 very low, but not at 0,0)
- enough light and with correct light spectrum

2.) 1+ 2+ 3+ is a pre-mixed system and in my eyes "not the best one that AF offers"... there are Ca/Alk/Mg systems better feasible for SPS/LPS!
I see the major advantage of 1+ 2+ 3+ in its simplicity.

Why:
- it is missing dosing of Mg according tanks consumption. Mg is "just part of component 3+" (result: Mg might get too low or too high)
- Traces (in form of NaCl free salt in 3+) are added independently from your Alk and Ca consumption. instuctions is to "dose 50ml per 100 L tanksize each day. This might lead to an over- or also under-dosing of traces

hope that helps

[Alfrareef]

It help! Confirmed the need to better understand the systems avoiding change just because it's there...
My tank PO4 and NO3 are low (0.13; 1) but need to go lower. I'm also looking at AF line for ways to have more control over those.
Thanks Martin Kuhn for your time.
Rgds,
AR

[CIR2000]

Hello,

someone in one of the Italian forum suggested me to reduce the quantity of the component 3 (1/2 dosing - max 3/4) because I have few corals in the tank and the risk is the intoxication or burn some pinnacle in growth. What do you think about ?


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

[ClearwaterUK]

Hello,

someone in one of the Italian forum suggested me to reduce the quantity of the component 3 (1/2 dosing - max 3/4) because I have few corals in the tank and the risk is the intoxication or burn some pinnacle in growth. What do you think about ?


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

all components are balanced and should be dosed equally

if you are at UNLS (Ulra Low Nutrients )

dKH should not exceed 8 and is better near 7 NSW

if you have few corals the dose will be low anyway
if you have few corals water changes may well be enough on there own to replenish the used elements

[ClearwaterUK]

Hi again Alfrareef

1.) i don't think that changing from FM Balling Light to AF 1+ 2+ 3+ will improve your corals colours.
If you managed to adapted Balling Light to match Ca, Alk and Mg, it is close to a perfect system for LPS/SPS, once you deliver 2 things
- good nutrient levels (NO3 and PO4 very low, but not at 0,0)
- enough light and with correct light spectrum

2.) 1+ 2+ 3+ is a pre-mixed system and in my eyes "not the best one that AF offers"... there are Ca/Alk/Mg systems better feasible for SPS/LPS!
I see the major advantage of 1+ 2+ 3+ in its simplicity.

Why:
- it is missing dosing of Mg according tanks consumption. Mg is "just part of component 3+" (result: Mg might get too low or too high)
- Traces (in form of NaCl free salt in 3+) are added independently from your Alk and Ca consumption. instuctions is to "dose 50ml per 100 L tanksize each day. This might lead to an over- or also under-dosing of traces

hope that helps

123 is full Balling though and should be dosed equally :fun2:

You can purchase separate Ca Mg and Carbonate and add components strong + Kallium

[Martin Kuhn]

123 is full Balling though and should be dosed equally :fun2:

You can purchase separate Ca Mg and Carbonate and add components strong + Kallium


Dosing espceially Ca and Alk in my eyes is outdated, still several manufactrers recommend it. Of course you can.

BUT depending on which of the 2 vaues you adjust your dosing (Alk OR Ca), the the other component might get either to "too high", or to "too low" values.

In my eyes it is CLEARLY better and closer to natural seawater if dosing NOT EQUALLY (not in a fix ratio)

[2dawghouse]

AF, Perry, can I make a recommendation/request. For those of us who dose 1,2,3 straight from the AF containers (love the pics by the way on the containers) van we get the containers clear and visibly see through instead of opaque white? It would be a major plus for AF I think.

[plyle02]

AF, Perry, can I make a recommendation/request. For those of us who dose 1,2,3 straight from the AF containers (love the pics by the way on the containers) van we get the containers clear and visibly see through instead of opaque white? It would be a major plus for AF I think.

Hello,
I am fairly certain that due to micro elements that are in the containers, it helps to keep light out, I could be wrong though :) I will clarify next time I communicate with Sever or Debora :) Cheers!

[ivanotas]

Hi. What will be the correct dosing method? Com 1 follow by 2 and final 3. I am dosing each at 1hr interval. Isit ok?

[GoVols]

Not me,

Comp-1 then Comp-3 lastly Comp-2

Dail in Comp-2 (Alk) parameter dosage first.

IF Comp-1 (Calcium / Mag) is low then raise with a pure Calcium booster. Not Comp-1.

Eventually all 3 components will even out to your Comp-2 (Alk) same dosage.

Component 1+ 2+ 3+ is very stable once locked in.

My apex pump schedule

1) Comp-1 40ml from 9am to 10am (Calcium / Mag)
2) Comp-3 40ml from 5pm to 6pm (I believe it's trace elements)
3) Comp-2 40ml from 10pm to 11pm (Alk) Dose late to help keep PH up over night.