Need help, conflicting LFS

[Phaze1971]

Hi, names Craig, England UK, just got a nano talk only 100 litres, been cycling for a month using Red Sea maturation kit, no live rock, as my LFS said it'd be better without it and sold me man-made rock not live, LFS said the Red Sea kit would do all the cycling, which according to the instructions it does....BUT according to another LFS (2) AND Red Sea they said I should've used live rock as that's what the kits meant to work with. Now my problem is, do I do a large WC as I've got very high nitrates (50+ppm) and nitrites (1 maybe even 2ppm) and also I don't think I've had an ammonia spike as LFS didn't sell me a ammonia test kit and so I couldn't check for the first week, but certain I've not had one as yet. Please help I'm not impatient to get fish and would happily wait even to put in a clean up crew, which LFS advised against, but LFS(2) and Red Sea said I should have, I don't know what's best and I'm worried I'll kill a CUC if I put them in my tank, it might not have completed cycling and would a large WC be just a waste of time/money. Any responses appreciated.

[Cymonous]

You can start a tank with either Dry Rock or Live Rock. Both have their benefits, but Live Rock has the possibility of unwanted hitchhiking critters. I would not do a water change until you know for sure you have 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrites. Ammonia turns into Nitrites, Nitrites turn into Nitrates. I would get an ammonia test kit. Red Sea is good to use for tests. You probably should add something to spike the ammonia to at least 2ppm. You can use pure ammonia or a cocktail shrimp. Adding something dead will take longer to raise ammonia than dosing pure ammonia though. Take advice from all LFS with a grain of salt and it is best to do your own research.

There are Posts at the top of this Forum (New to the Hobby) with information on starting a saltwater fish tank. Good Luck!

[Sapelo]

I agree with Cymonous. You're into it now with the dry rock so you might as well proceed. It will have its own set of benefits although your tank would probably have cycled faster with live rock. No matter now. Grab an ammonia test kit and add something to get your cycle going.
CUCs are pretty hardy in general but since you are patient (a real bonus in this hobby! if you ever figure out how to bottle and sell that, you'll be rich) then go ahead and monitor your cycle first.
LFS are...well they can be hit or miss. There is one guy at my LFS who has even a clue what is going on, the rest will say the first thing that pops into their heads.
The stickies at the top of the forums here are great and in general you can get tons of great advice and opinions who have been keeping reef tanks for a very long time.
When in doubt (or even if not), just ask! Good luck!

[Dkuhlmann]

Here's the problem that you have now, you already did a cycle on your tank I'm assuming you have sand bed, and I can promise you that you have had an ammonia spike or you wouldn't have nitrites or nitrates so your tank is in the middle of a cycle. Now you need to put in your rock whether you buy live or dead will be a time to cycle thing, of course lr is much more expensive than dry rock, that choice is yours.

What I would do at this point is to get the ammonia test kit, some plain pure ammonia from any grocery, hardware store to raise to 2 ppm as stated earlier this is the fastest way to get your tank cycled.

Don't buy a cuc until your tank has cycled and you have had an algae bloom, otherwise you will have to feed them something or they will die.

Seems like neither of your lfs gave you very sound advice and it's sad as they should have directed you to properly setup your tank with lr from the beginning.

Let us know what you decide and what your tests do as you go,we will be more than happy to help you.

[Quiet_Ivy]

Originally Posted by Phaze1971

Hi, names Craig, England UK, just got a nano talk only 100 litres, been cycling for a month using Red Sea maturation kit,

Now my problem is, do I do a large WC as I've got very high nitrates (50+ppm) and nitrites (1 maybe even 2ppm) and also I don't think I've had an ammonia spike as LFS didn't sell me a ammonia test kit and so I couldn't check for the first week, but certain I've not had one as yet. Please help I'm not impatient to get fish and would happily wait even to put in a clean up crew, which LFS advised against, but LFS(2) and Red Sea said I should have, I don't know what's best and I'm worried I'll kill a CUC if I put them in my tank, it might not have completed cycling and would a large WC be just a waste of time/money. Any responses appreciated.

Hi Craig, nice to see someone else using metric on here.
I looked up the kit and it looks like they're trying to make cycling as confusing as humanly possible. But anyway, if you're following along with their schedule, you should have had 0 ammonia and nitrite by day 10. You may be getting additional organics from the dry rock, which are slowing everything down. This isn't unusual.

You can do a water change if you like. You don't have anything but bacteria in the tank so it's not critical. Check ammonia. I wouldn't panic about the nitrate reading, especially if you aren't seeing algae yet. Nitrite messes up nitrate readings. The kit will have spiked your ammonia, don't worry.

Don't add cleaning crew. Red Sea tells you to add it when ammonia and nitrite are zero, and nitrates are around 5. You really should wait until then, or even until you see brown or green algae. You haven't finished cycling until ammonia and nitrite are 0. I definitely wouldn't add fish.

Using that kit on cured live rock would be completely redundant. And possibly lead to major die off of the life from excessive ammonia. Red Sea's usually very reputable, I'm boggled that they're selling this kit. (NoPox in a cycling aquarium? Seriously?)

hope that helps a bit,
Ivy

[Quiet_Ivy]

Originally Posted by Dkuhlmann

Now you need to put in your rock whether you buy live or dead will be a time to cycle thing, of course lr is much more expensive than dry rock, that choice is yours.

The OP has man made rock in the tank. And the kit they're using contains ammonia (and probably nitrite and nitrate from the manual) so there's no need to add more to spike it to 2ppm. I know all the cool kids spike ammonia to 2ppm but I don't think it's necessary.

Seems like neither of your lfs gave you very sound advice and it's sad as they should have directed you to properly setup your tank with lr from the beginning.

Totally agree, but liverock is becoming difficult to find. The biggest online fs in Canada no longer lists it. My LFS will only special order it, they don't carry it. Americans are fortunate with excellent aquaculture facilities like TBS.

ivy

[Dkuhlmann]

Ivy thanks for the information, I wasn't aware that was available like that. Damn governments getting into our business sucks

[Phaze1971]

Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy

Hi Craig, nice to see someone else using metric on here.
I looked up the kit and it looks like they're trying to make cycling as confusing as humanly possible. But anyway, if you're following along with their schedule, you should have had 0 ammonia and nitrite by day 10. You may be getting additional organics from the dry rock, which are slowing everything down. This isn't unusual.

You can do a water change if you like. You don't have anything but bacteria in the tank so it's not critical. Check ammonia. I wouldn't panic about the nitrate reading, especially if you aren't seeing algae yet. Nitrite messes up nitrate readings. The kit will have spiked your ammonia, don't worry.

Don't add cleaning crew. Red Sea tells you to add it when ammonia and nitrite are zero, and nitrates are around 5. You really should wait until then, or even until you see brown or green algae. You haven't finished cycling until ammonia and nitrite are 0. I definitely wouldn't add fish.

Using that kit on cured live rock would be completely redundant. And possibly lead to major die off of the life from excessive ammonia. Red Sea's usually very reputable, I'm boggled that they're selling this kit. (NoPox in a cycling aquarium? Seriously?)

hope that helps a bit,
Ivy

I've got brown algae and diotoms I think, one of the LFS said I should 'agitate' my substrate to release bubbles, I've done this but this also mixes up the sand with the algae.

[Phaze1971]

THANKS for everyone's reply, I'm determined to get my water exact before adding any fish.

[bat21]

I cycled with dry rock. It did take a little longer than it would have with live rock. The middle phase, waiting for Nitrite to zero out, took kind of a while. So just be patient. the whole thing took me 6-7 weeks. But I love my decision to go with dry rock. A lot of people don't like it, but it becomes just as covered in bacteria as any live rock you can buy. And no unwanted hitchhikers of any kind. My bio filter performs incredibly well. Shockingly well to be honest. Just go slow as you add fish to let it catch up. Patience is key! When in doubt, wait. And then wait some more. Good luck!

[Quiet_Ivy]

Originally Posted by Phaze1971

I've got brown algae and diotoms I think, one of the LFS said I should 'agitate' my substrate to release bubbles, I've done this but this also mixes up the sand with the algae.

Sand beds are mighty controversial. If this is a shallow bed, ie less than ~5cm you're probably fine to stir it. I wouldn't bother, the bubbles are harmless. The nitrate-reducing bacteria like low-oxygen conditions so leaving it alone will make them happy.

Brown algae is probably diatoms, yep. They're actually a Good Thing, they'll drop your nitrates and get rid of all the silica in your tank. They look terrible but are self limiting and will go away. I'd still hold off on adding snails til nitrite is zero. It's not very toxic in saltwater, but does indicate that the water chemistry isn't stable.

hth
ivy

[Phaze1971]

Thanks again for everyone's help, I feel much better about it all now,

[gone fishin]

I would keep a close eye on your parameters. Depending on how the rock was made and the quality of materials you could get into some issues with things leaching out. I would keep an eye on the alkalinity and once you get some livestock in the tank watch their behavior. I have read some threads where man made rock had some nasty contaminants. Good luck