I took the plunge! New BK Supermarine 250 - Page 5

tony varrell · 02/18/2008, 07:30 AM

tbone ATB medimum way to go.

tbone28 · 02/18/2008, 11:38 AM

Tony, thanks for confusing me even more than I already am!

So of course, when I ask BK owners, they recommend BK. When I talk to ATB owners, they rec that. And when I talk to H&S owners...well, you know the story.

I've done most of my reading on BK skimmers. Lately have been pulled into the ATB talk. So Tony, tell me why ATB over BK?

kenettson1 · 02/18/2008, 01:10 PM

For the record, every deltec I've ever owned has worked flawlessly - AP600, AP902, and AP851. I'm not a BK homer, just trying to be informative.

3.99AfterTaxes · 02/18/2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paulairduck
There is always some mystery when you think about spending 2K on a skimmer, I am still waiting for someone to prove these BK's are worth the money???

THE ABOVE PICS ARE NICE.

How much do other skimmers rated at 250 - 800 gallons go for? :P

tbone28 · 02/18/2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kenettson1
For the record, every deltec I've ever owned has worked flawlessly - AP600, AP902, and AP851. I'm not a BK homer, just trying to be informative.

Yes, I understand you're being informative. I was referring to other BK owners I've spoken to. I enjoy your objectivity. BTW, how is your wet skim working out?

tbone28 · 02/18/2008, 02:37 PM

Klaus,

I heard you're developing a meshwheel mod for the RD2 adjustable pump to deliver 4L/H air. Will this mod work for the Submarine 250?

Klaus Jansen · 02/18/2008, 02:56 PM

@tbone28...

not with Standart-Red Dragon Pumps... the HastelloyC-Meshwheels are to strong for the BKÂ´s. So we want make a mix with the HC-Meshwheels and a Speedadjustable RD2 Pump with Brushless DC-Motorblock. So it is possible for adjust the Speed and airintake from 500 to 4000 Liter/h. Speed from 0 - 4000 rpm......You can found himself the best performance of your tank....
We show the first Brushless-DC Pump with HC-Meshwheels by Interzoo in NÃ¼rnberg

@ Lifetime warranty...

the bearings inside the Pumps, have lifetime warranty, not the completed Pump. RE using Siliciumcarbide-Bearings. Thats the hardest Bearing-Material for Pumps. The next Hardness-Step was a Diamond...
Thats important for Skimmer-Pumps. Carbon Bearings are to soft and the Pump begining with vibrations. RE is the only Manufacturer, where using this expensive bearings for submersible Pumps..... thats one of the little important Points where is the different of all the BK-Fakers....

regards... Klaus

tony varrell · 02/18/2008, 03:11 PM

Tbone I am not sure this is the right place for this discussion. I will tell you that my good fotune has allowed me to purchase any thing that I might want or need. To me it came down to a couple of practical issues, technology and cost of replacement parts That being said I enjoy a fast european car over a chevy anytime to answer the analogy commonly used about skimmers I believe ATB is equally high end. Not being a skimmer geek I am not positive my decision is righ. Just a gut feeling..As metioned previously I have also owned deltec skimmers and they have been great. They were also a gut feeling...

tbone28 · 02/18/2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tony varrell
Tbone I am not sure this is the right place for this discussion. I will tell you that my good fotune has allowed me to purchase any thing that I might want or need. To me it came down to a couple of practical issues, technology and cost of replacement parts That being said I enjoy a fast european car over a chevy anytime to answer the analogy commonly used about skimmers I believe ATB is equally high end. Not being a skimmer geek I am not positive my decision is righ. Just a gut feeling..As metioned previously I have also owned deltec skimmers and they have been great. They were also a gut feeling...

OK Tony, i'm confused. Do you have an ATB? Earlier, you mentioned ordering the SM200.

tbone28 · 02/18/2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Klaus Jansen
@tbone28...

not with Standart-Red Dragon Pumps... the HastelloyC-Meshwheels are to strong for the BKÂ´s. So we want make a mix with the HC-Meshwheels and a Speedadjustable RD2 Pump with Brushless DC-Motorblock. So it is possible for adjust the Speed and airintake from 500 to 4000 Liter/h. Speed from 0 - 4000 rpm......You can found himself the best performance of your tank....
We show the first Brushless-DC Pump with HC-Meshwheels by Interzoo in NÃ¼rnberg

@ Lifetime warranty...

the bearings inside the Pumps, have lifetime warranty, not the completed Pump. RE using Siliciumcarbide-Bearings. Thats the hardest Bearing-Material for Pumps. The next Hardness-Step was a Diamond...
Thats important for Skimmer-Pumps. Carbon Bearings are to soft and the Pump begining with vibrations. RE is the only Manufacturer, where using this expensive bearings for submersible Pumps..... thats one of the little important Points where is the different of all the BK-Fakers....

regards... Klaus

Thanks for clarifying, Klaus. If I'm understanding you correctly, the meshwheel is too strong for the standard pump. But if a customer were to purchase a new pump with the new meshwheel, would that work well with the Submarine 250?

Also, which skimmer would perform better: Deluxe 200 or Submarine 250?

Thanks!

cwegescheide · 02/18/2008, 03:40 PM

I've got an ATB... Its a nice quality skimmer. MUCH better the the ER I had I can tell you that. The skimmate it produces is BLACK as midnight on my 90 heavily stocked SPS with 8 fish.

I thought very hard about getting the mini myself and oredered one from PA and then a lot of people started chiming in talking about oversizing and horror stories. I chickened out. I ended up getting the ATB because my lfs had on on their counter and I figured they would work with me if I had any problems. Definatley the BK looks nice.

Creetin · 02/18/2008, 03:50 PM

Me likey the BK over the ATB cone. I am not a fan of a cone with a small pump. JMO though. I have a BK 250 and i went with it over the supermarine.

I am very happy with the skimmer i can get light green tea or dark tar.

kenettson1 · 02/18/2008, 05:01 PM

I would like the option of upgrading to the meshwheel variable speed pump. I'm not sure if I would buy it or not, but the option would be nice.

I have some ideas about why the 200 has the cone extension. I'm still seeing a decent amount of microbubbles leaving the skimmer. Since I have it in a remote sump I'm not seeing too many in the tank. The extension would decrese the likelihood of those microbubbles exiting the skimmer.

I have no experience with ER or ATB so I got nothin' for you guys on those comparisons.

gcarroll · 02/18/2008, 05:41 PM

Well, it is apparent the Klaus is still following this thread, so I'll ask a third time. I'd hate to think the question is being ignored. I know I'm not the only person that would like an answer to this.

Klaus,
What I am referring to is the rating for the Bubble King DeLuxe 300 Internal is rated for 793 US gallons and the Bubble King Supermarin 250 Internal is rated for 793 US gallons. I am not looking to get an external skimmer so both of these skimmers are in-sump models.

How does the Bubble King Supermarin 250 Internal get the same rating as the Bubble King DeLuxe 300 Internal. Is the unique design of the Supermarin more efficient than the DeLuxe? Is that why the smaller 250 mm Supermarin has the same rating as the DeLuxe 300?

Regards

Proline · 02/18/2008, 06:10 PM

Hi Greg
The 2 skimmer in question SM250 & BK-300 use the same pump that is BK-RD2000 ,therefore the air water ratio will be the same as far as the pump is concerned ,ofcourse they are 2 different design of skimmer body ,with the deluxe series you be able to adjust the skimmer a bit more to get darker skimmate , the Supermarines have been designed to have a smaller foot print for people that have less room in sump with the obtion of being able to mount the pump on 2 different side of skimmer to get a different dimmensions based on what you have in your sump to work with & also the fact the the SM250 is 10cm shorter than the BK300,.
Also 2 different school of thought SM uses the cone ,which you are all aware of it's benefit ,however as for the Deluxe series the volume of body of the skimmer filled with bubbles will be much greater than than SM specialy comparing the BK-300 & SM-250.
Also another question as the color of skimmate ,that is way too relative based on each tanks bioload ,feeding ,.... It will not be fair to rate or compare 2 different sizes ,brands ,.... only based on what color skimmate you get.
At the end of the day they are both great skimmers ,I have personaly used a BK-300 ext in the past & was exteremly pleased with it as for the SM-250 I don't have any personal experience with it.We just dismantled the office tank ,I believe the next tank in the office will have a SM-250 on it.
Regards
Chris
Proline

uhuru · 02/18/2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Creetin
Me likey the BK over the ATB cone. I am not a fan of a cone with a small pump. JMO though. I have a BK 250 and i went with it over the supermarine.

I am very happy with the skimmer i can get light green tea or dark tar.

You may not like the CONE but you've got to love the FOAM

I also have a BK mini. I didn't understand the big deal with the cone shape until I actually tried it. The BK SM models look really nice too.

Proline · 02/18/2008, 06:19 PM

Too Fly
Congrats on your newborn

Regards
Chris

tbone28 · 02/18/2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Proline
Hi Greg
The 2 skimmer in question SM250 & BK-300 use the same pump that is BK-RD2000 ,therefore the air water ratio will be the same as far as the pump is concerned ,ofcourse they are 2 different design of skimmer body ,with the deluxe series you be able to adjust the skimmer a bit more to get darker skimmate , the Supermarines have been designed to have a smaller foot print for people that have less room in sump with the obtion of being able to mount the pump on 2 different side of skimmer to get a different dimmensions based on what you have in your sump to work with & also the fact the the SM250 is 10cm shorter than the BK300,.
Also 2 different school of thought SM uses the cone ,which you are all aware of it's benefit ,however as for the Deluxe series the volume of body of the skimmer filled with bubbles will be much greater than than SM specialy comparing the BK-300 & SM-250.
Also another question as the color of skimmate ,that is way too relative based on each tanks bioload ,feeding ,.... It will not be fair to rate or compare 2 different sizes ,brands ,.... only based on what color skimmate you get.
At the end of the day they are both great skimmers ,I have personaly used a BK-300 ext in the past & was exteremly pleased with it as for the SM-250 I don't have any personal experience with it.We just dismantled the office tank ,I believe the next tank in the office will have a SM-250 on it.
Regards
Chris
Proline

Hi Chris,

Can you please elaborate on what feature the Deluxe series has that allows one to "adjust the skimmer a bit more to get darker skimmate"?

I am *this close* to upgrading my skimmer. I am leaning towards a BK, but would like to know the differences. I, like Greg, am a bit confused as to the difference between an SM250 and Deluxe 300.

It seems the general answer to the difference is the Deluxe skims darker, but what in the design allows for this? Given that both skimmers use the same pump and both are rated for the same size tank, it seems that a design difference allows for this darker skimmate. Is that true? I guess I'm trying to see if this difference is worth the higher price of the Deluxe series.

Also, what in the design of the SMALLER SM250 allows it to have the same rating as the larger Deluxe 300? I think that's what we're trying to get at.

Thanks!

Proline · 02/18/2008, 07:27 PM

tbone
With the Deluxe you are able to raise the telescopic Pipe to raise the water level & also twist the knob to allow for more or less water to exit ,as for the SM you can only twist the knob & you will not be able to raise the pipe.
They do do the same thing ,however as for very fine tuning ,you do have that option with the Deluxe ,if that can make a difference of 5% or 10% or more or less I can not tell you for a fact .
As for why the SM will skim abit more wet ,I think less bubbles burst will translate to more water in the cup compare to Deluxe,the cone will allow more bubbles to come up without bursting ,however the bubbles that do burst easier do posses a lesser of a surface tension wich should mean the Water molecules in the bubbles encapsuling the air carry less organic matter.
I believe this should be the rule of thumb with the cone concept as a whole against the conventional cylinderical design.
Again this is not difference between night & day we are talking different in concept of design ,what would be percentage of skimate being darker compared to the other @ same air/water ratio will be very hard to determine

tbone28 · 02/18/2008, 07:32 PM

Thanks for the explanation, Chris!

Just in your opinion, which do you think would skim better in the following match-ups:

1) SM250 vs. Deluxe 200 Int
2) SM250 vs. Deluxe 250 Int

Both on a 180g tank (~240g total volume) with planned heavy bioload (fish & SPS), 18g fuge w/ chaeto.

Proline · 02/18/2008, 07:40 PM

No problem

There are many great products out there ,you just have to find the right one for your application,some favour wet skimming & some dry.
Regards
Chris

tbone28 · 02/18/2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Proline
No problem

There are many great products out there ,you just have to find the right one for your application,some favour wet skimming & some dry.
Regards
Chris

Chris, did you see my question for you in my last post?

let me ask a different way. If it were your tank, which skimmer would you choose?

1) SM250 or Deluxe 200 Int
2) SM250 or Deluxe 250 Int

Thanks!

Proline · 02/18/2008, 07:47 PM

tbone
Between the 200 & 250 Int , ofcourse 250 will out perform the 200.
Now I am a bit confused I thought we were comparing Dlx 300 & SM 250

As for the Deluxe Vs SM ,again your preference .
What I can say if you were planning a 793 Gallon tank between those 2 I will go for Dlx ,anything else in that range they both should do fine.

GSMguy · 02/18/2008, 07:52 PM

My tank is 794 gallons i am out of luck

tbone28 · 02/18/2008, 07:53 PM

Sorry to confuse you Chris

Yes, Greg and I are curious as to why SM250 gets the same rating as Deluxe 300, which you've answered.

For me personally, I'm looking to buy either SM250, Deluxe 200 Int and Deluxe 250 Int, which is why I asked for your opinion. And it seems your answer is "either skimmer" will work just as well for my sized tank...you're putting a lot of pressure on me to make the right decision!

02/18/2008, 01:10 PM	#103
kenettson1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 356	For the record, every deltec I've ever owned has worked flawlessly - AP600, AP902, and AP851. I'm not a BK homer, just trying to be informative. __________________ GO COLTS!! Current Tank Info: 225 Gallon (5x3x2) Used to have SPS - Bubbleking Supermarine 250 Skimmer - H&S 200CR-F3000 CaRx - 2 x Tunze 6200's on MultiController - 2 x 400 XM 20k - ACIII Pro

02/18/2008, 02:37 PM	#106
tbone28 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 6,503	Titanium meshwheel Klaus, I heard you're developing a meshwheel mod for the RD2 adjustable pump to deliver 4L/H air. Will this mod work for the Submarine 250?

02/18/2008, 02:56 PM	#107
Klaus Jansen RC Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,256	@tbone28... not with Standart-Red Dragon Pumps... the HastelloyC-Meshwheels are to strong for the BKÂ´s. So we want make a mix with the HC-Meshwheels and a Speedadjustable RD2 Pump with Brushless DC-Motorblock. So it is possible for adjust the Speed and airintake from 500 to 4000 Liter/h. Speed from 0 - 4000 rpm......You can found himself the best performance of your tank.... We show the first Brushless-DC Pump with HC-Meshwheels by Interzoo in NÃ¼rnberg @ Lifetime warranty... the bearings inside the Pumps, have lifetime warranty, not the completed Pump. RE using Siliciumcarbide-Bearings. Thats the hardest Bearing-Material for Pumps. The next Hardness-Step was a Diamond... Thats important for Skimmer-Pumps. Carbon Bearings are to soft and the Pump begining with vibrations. RE is the only Manufacturer, where using this expensive bearings for submersible Pumps..... thats one of the little important Points where is the different of all the BK-Fakers.... regards... Klaus Last edited by Klaus Jansen; 02/18/2008 at 03:05 PM.

02/18/2008, 03:50 PM	#112
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	Me likey the BK over the ATB cone. I am not a fan of a cone with a small pump. JMO though. I have a BK 250 and i went with it over the supermarine. I am very happy with the skimmer i can get light green tea or dark tar. __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

02/18/2008, 05:01 PM	#113
kenettson1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 356	I would like the option of upgrading to the meshwheel variable speed pump. I'm not sure if I would buy it or not, but the option would be nice. I have some ideas about why the 200 has the cone extension. I'm still seeing a decent amount of microbubbles leaving the skimmer. Since I have it in a remote sump I'm not seeing too many in the tank. The extension would decrese the likelihood of those microbubbles exiting the skimmer. I have no experience with ER or ATB so I got nothin' for you guys on those comparisons. __________________ GO COLTS!! Current Tank Info: 225 Gallon (5x3x2) Used to have SPS - Bubbleking Supermarine 250 Skimmer - H&S 200CR-F3000 CaRx - 2 x Tunze 6200's on MultiController - 2 x 400 XM 20k - ACIII Pro

02/18/2008, 07:30 AM	#101
tony varrell Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ft. lauderdale,fl Posts: 772	tbone ATB medimum way to go.

02/18/2008, 11:38 AM	#102
tbone28 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 6,503	Tony, thanks for confusing me even more than I already am! So of course, when I ask BK owners, they recommend BK. When I talk to ATB owners, they rec that. And when I talk to H&S owners...well, you know the story. I've done most of my reading on BK skimmers. Lately have been pulled into the ATB talk. So Tony, tell me why ATB over BK?

02/18/2008, 03:11 PM	#108
tony varrell Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ft. lauderdale,fl Posts: 772	Tbone I am not sure this is the right place for this discussion. I will tell you that my good fotune has allowed me to purchase any thing that I might want or need. To me it came down to a couple of practical issues, technology and cost of replacement parts That being said I enjoy a fast european car over a chevy anytime to answer the analogy commonly used about skimmers I believe ATB is equally high end. Not being a skimmer geek I am not positive my decision is righ. Just a gut feeling..As metioned previously I have also owned deltec skimmers and they have been great. They were also a gut feeling...

02/18/2008, 03:40 PM	#111
cwegescheide YOU have been ignored! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 5,231	I've got an ATB... Its a nice quality skimmer. MUCH better the the ER I had I can tell you that. The skimmate it produces is BLACK as midnight on my 90 heavily stocked SPS with 8 fish. I thought very hard about getting the mini myself and oredered one from PA and then a lot of people started chiming in talking about oversizing and horror stories. I chickened out. I ended up getting the ATB because my lfs had on on their counter and I figured they would work with me if I had any problems. Definatley the BK looks nice.

02/18/2008, 05:41 PM	#114
gcarroll Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Orange, CA Posts: 9,666	Well, it is apparent the Klaus is still following this thread, so I'll ask a third time. I'd hate to think the question is being ignored. I know I'm not the only person that would like an answer to this. Klaus, What I am referring to is the rating for the Bubble King DeLuxe 300 Internal is rated for 793 US gallons and the Bubble King Supermarin 250 Internal is rated for 793 US gallons. I am not looking to get an external skimmer so both of these skimmers are in-sump models. How does the Bubble King Supermarin 250 Internal get the same rating as the Bubble King DeLuxe 300 Internal. Is the unique design of the Supermarin more efficient than the DeLuxe? Is that why the smaller 250 mm Supermarin has the same rating as the DeLuxe 300? Regards __________________ Greg Carroll I will be at REEF-A-PALOOZA! SPS = Stability Promotes Success Be wary of advice coming from those who will not show you the fruits of their success! Current Tank Info: building: 250g AGE Euro tank, Abyzz A200, Vertex Supra-G filtration, Ecotech Radion Pro LEDs, ...

02/18/2008, 06:10 PM	#115
Proline Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 272	Hi Greg The 2 skimmer in question SM250 & BK-300 use the same pump that is BK-RD2000 ,therefore the air water ratio will be the same as far as the pump is concerned ,ofcourse they are 2 different design of skimmer body ,with the deluxe series you be able to adjust the skimmer a bit more to get darker skimmate , the Supermarines have been designed to have a smaller foot print for people that have less room in sump with the obtion of being able to mount the pump on 2 different side of skimmer to get a different dimmensions based on what you have in your sump to work with & also the fact the the SM250 is 10cm shorter than the BK300,. Also 2 different school of thought SM uses the cone ,which you are all aware of it's benefit ,however as for the Deluxe series the volume of body of the skimmer filled with bubbles will be much greater than than SM specialy comparing the BK-300 & SM-250. Also another question as the color of skimmate ,that is way too relative based on each tanks bioload ,feeding ,.... It will not be fair to rate or compare 2 different sizes ,brands ,.... only based on what color skimmate you get. At the end of the day they are both great skimmers ,I have personaly used a BK-300 ext in the past & was exteremly pleased with it as for the SM-250 I don't have any personal experience with it.We just dismantled the office tank ,I believe the next tank in the office will have a SM-250 on it. Regards Chris Proline

02/18/2008, 06:19 PM	#117
Proline Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 272	Too Fly Congrats on your newborn Regards Chris

02/18/2008, 07:27 PM	#119
Proline Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 272	tbone With the Deluxe you are able to raise the telescopic Pipe to raise the water level & also twist the knob to allow for more or less water to exit ,as for the SM you can only twist the knob & you will not be able to raise the pipe. They do do the same thing ,however as for very fine tuning ,you do have that option with the Deluxe ,if that can make a difference of 5% or 10% or more or less I can not tell you for a fact . As for why the SM will skim abit more wet ,I think less bubbles burst will translate to more water in the cup compare to Deluxe,the cone will allow more bubbles to come up without bursting ,however the bubbles that do burst easier do posses a lesser of a surface tension wich should mean the Water molecules in the bubbles encapsuling the air carry less organic matter. I believe this should be the rule of thumb with the cone concept as a whole against the conventional cylinderical design. Again this is not difference between night & day we are talking different in concept of design ,what would be percentage of skimate being darker compared to the other @ same air/water ratio will be very hard to determine

02/18/2008, 07:32 PM	#120
tbone28 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 6,503	Thanks for the explanation, Chris! Just in your opinion, which do you think would skim better in the following match-ups: 1) SM250 vs. Deluxe 200 Int 2) SM250 vs. Deluxe 250 Int Both on a 180g tank (~240g total volume) with planned heavy bioload (fish & SPS), 18g fuge w/ chaeto.

02/18/2008, 07:40 PM	#121
Proline Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 272	No problem There are many great products out there ,you just have to find the right one for your application,some favour wet skimming & some dry. Regards Chris

02/18/2008, 07:47 PM	#123
Proline Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 272	tbone Between the 200 & 250 Int , ofcourse 250 will out perform the 200. Now I am a bit confused I thought we were comparing Dlx 300 & SM 250 As for the Deluxe Vs SM ,again your preference . What I can say if you were planning a 793 Gallon tank between those 2 I will go for Dlx ,anything else in that range they both should do fine.

02/18/2008, 07:52 PM	#124
GSMguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northern New Mexico Posts: 17,420	My tank is 794 gallons i am out of luck __________________ Nick. Conehead. Shallow Reef club. Current Tank Info: 48"x27"x14" Envision Acrylic rimless, 6x39w ATi Sunpower, Custom ATB Deluxe Skimmer, 4x tunze nano stream,ATB flowstar 1500, ACJR, Tunze osmolator.

02/18/2008, 07:53 PM	#125
tbone28 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 6,503	Sorry to confuse you Chris Yes, Greg and I are curious as to why SM250 gets the same rating as Deluxe 300, which you've answered. For me personally, I'm looking to buy either SM250, Deluxe 200 Int and Deluxe 250 Int, which is why I asked for your opinion. And it seems your answer is "either skimmer" will work just as well for my sized tank...you're putting a lot of pressure on me to make the right decision!