Tanks and Corals under LED Lighting

[PrangeWay]

They won't be mainstream till costs are equal to a halide/t5 fixture, setup. So that's still probably 5-10 years away. Also Solaris has shown us that led reliability isn't the "10 year bulbs" adverstised.

A better bet is a push on more residential applications being developed (ie led light bulbs, mainstream and cheap) driving the prices down and availibility up.

From a municipal stand point, led street lights, traffic signals are already in widespread testing, low-scale use. Which will also push costs/availibilty to where they need to be.

With the current economic climate though, speciality led innovation like for reef tank lighting is going to lag behind the other two listed above. Money and promise of profit drives innovation, nothing else.


PW

[Andrea_Aust]

Hey guys ... great thread.

Hopefully some of our Aussie reefers will hop on board over the next few months and start sharing their experiences with the new Eco-Lamps LED's.

We have just closed of a really successful 'GROUP BUY' through the RTAW / MASA forum members.

Stumbled on these a few months ago - when they released the KR92 series and upgraded the KR91 to program control, I sent Eco-Lamps and email to see if they would be prepared to do a 'special' with our forum members.

The reason they did this for us was because they did not yet have a distributor. They have now! The GB created a mass of interest.

Over 50 units have been ordered. Over the next few months you should be able to follow a heap of feedback on how they're going.

It is a leap of faith ... but the deal Eco-Lamps did was just too appealing. Couple that with the fact that they are right up there with LED technology ... and that there are actual reef keepers developing these systems, should be very exciting stuff.

So I'll send you some info on these evaluations soon. I actually have some demo units arriving here in the next few days so the MASA guys can get together and review them.

I am BUSTING to get my T5's off my tank before our summer hits this year. Looks like we're just in time.

[dickenscd]

Originally posted by jglackin
Sorry, folks, as someone that has been using Solaris lighting for 2+ years, and through 2 different generations of their lighting (H and I series), I can tell you with absolute certainty that the lighting is sub optimal for SPS. I ran the H series for just over a year and could not grow corals at all. They would survive and limp along, but I had stunted growth or no growth at all. PFO then tells me, "Yeah, it was just not ready for SPS, but the I series is!" So, I spent $$$ more and upgraded to an I series and have been running it for about a year. It's a better light fixture and puts out more PAR, but it *not* good for SPS. Not near the amount of growth that I should be seeing.

What I am finding is that the LEDs put out a lot of PAR, but not enough UV. I hear that Solaris was getting around to another upgrade to fix this issue, but they went under before they made the upgrade.

I am done with LED. Maybe in a few years they will have something comparable, and I will consider it then, as I love the concept and love the ease of using my Solaris, but I am going to T5 (or at least add T5s to augment my Solaris).

My 175G tank with Solaris I4 were setup in Dec.2007, here are some pictures to show the growth of SPS (blue tip on the left, green milli, orange monti cap on the center, and purple tip on the right were frags smaller than 2").


Picture taken on 08/11/08,




Picture taken on 02/05/09




Picture taken on 09/11/09, the orange monti cap is dying because it is covered by the green milli.




James

[jglackin]

Originally posted by dickenscd
My 175G tank with Solaris I4 were setup in Dec.2007, here are some pictures to show the growth of SPS (blue tip on the left, green milli, orange monti cap on the center, and purple tip on the right were frags smaller than 2").


James

I remember reading all of the glowing reviews when I was researching buying the H series, with lots of great pictures (search the archives). Now, nobody argues that the H was ready for prime time. It was a bust for SPS, and Solaris admitted it, but then proclaimed the I series as "the one". It wasn't and I know for a fact that Solaris was trying to address it before they went under. However, if you are sold on your Solaris, keep it.

My personal experience with Solaris is that it is sub optimal and not ready for prime time. I personally know people that did testing for Solaris and they have confirmed that Solaris puts out a lot of PAR, but not enough of the light that corals require. Plus, the LEDs degrade must faster than ever thought. They are currently testing some new LEDs, installed in a Solaris, but they are long from being able to post results. I was told to switch lighting, but that eventually I may be able to retrofit the Solaris with LEDs that will put out the required light. "Switch out your lighting, but don't throw out the Solaris yet."

Nobody is more disappointed that the Solaris doesn't cut it than I am. I was really hoping that it was going to be the way to go. Thousands of $$$ up in smoke and a lot of dead corals later, I am moving on.

[dickenscd]

More pictures for SPS growth under LED.


Picture taken on 08/11/09



Picture taken on 02/05/2009



Picture taken on 09/11/2009



James

[Andrea_Aust]

Well its pretty hard to argue with those pics.

Kudo's James ... that's awesome progress!

Ya know ... I think a lot of the time new lighting gets the blame for everything that goes pear shaped. I recall reading about people getting a load of algae blooms with the SunBrite LEDs ... it made me wonder too and I began to believe the hype. Something is wrong with the light ...

Then a few months ago I changed over my T5's to new ATI ... no LEDs in my tank but the algae bloomed away. Of course it stands to reason - more light, more food ... I got serious and cleaned my water up ... algae says goodbye.

Same deal with some corals fading ... is it the lighting or is it the water quality? Is it a lack of something or is it a case of too much of a good thing?

I was sure I read in Eric Borneman's book that this is a natural occurance on coral reefs as well.

I'm certainly not suggesting LEDs has no where to go but I do think we're at a point where the iron is hot.

I can't wait to get my LEDs running.

[dickenscd]

Originally posted by Andrea_Aust
Hey guys ... great thread.

Hopefully some of our Aussie reefers will hop on board over the next few months and start sharing their experiences with the new Eco-Lamps LED's.

We have just closed of a really successful 'GROUP BUY' through the RTAW / MASA forum members.

Stumbled on these a few months ago - when they released the KR92 series and upgraded the KR91 to program control, I sent Eco-Lamps and email to see if they would be prepared to do a 'special' with our forum members.

The reason they did this for us was because they did not yet have a distributor. They have now! The GB created a mass of interest.

Over 50 units have been ordered. Over the next few months you should be able to follow a heap of feedback on how they're going.

It is a leap of faith ... but the deal Eco-Lamps did was just too appealing. Couple that with the fact that they are right up there with LED technology ... and that there are actual reef keepers developing these systems, should be very exciting stuff.

So I'll send you some info on these evaluations soon. I actually have some demo units arriving here in the next few days so the MASA guys can get together and review them.

I am BUSTING to get my T5's off my tank before our summer hits this year. Looks like we're just in time.

Group buy for 50 units of KR92 without even seeing a sample, and each unit is over $1,000.- ?

I bought my 72" Solaris I4 in Dec.2007, but 1/3 of the lights and all 3 PS went out within 15 months. Don't you question the quality and reliability of a new supplier like Eco-lamp?

Has any hobbiest in Australia tried KR91? Can you post some pictures here?

James

[Editour2]

James,
this is the same Eco-Lamps that I am trying to initiate a group buy with our club, (LIRA).
Frank

[wesley6610]

Good looking growth under LED's to me as well!

[jmoney]

i saw some article for th life of me I can't find the link again, but it was some kind of plasma led light, and it was much much brighter than any mh that ive ever seen

[jmoney]

sorry found it

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/aqua...s-with-spread/

[Andrea_Aust]

Originally posted by dickenscd
Group buy for 50 units of KR92 without even seeing a sample, and each unit is over $1,000.- ?

I bought my 72" Solaris I4 in Dec.2007, but 1/3 of the lights and all 3 PS went out within 15 months. Don't you question the quality and reliability of a new supplier like Eco-lamp?

Has any hobbiest in Australia tried KR91? Can you post some pictures here?

James

I believe the very first KR91 and KR92's are about to be delivered to me today. These are demo units that I will then send on to the distributor in another state. These demo units were being sent to reassure those that have placed an order of the build quality / brightness etc etc. A few of us will get together tonight or over the weekend to run some more pictures through to the GB list...

Do I question the build quality? Funnily enough not in this case. I have read more than the odd review ... seen quite a few pictures:

http://coralshopping.com/Tienda/inde...6&limitstart=6

http://s676.photobucket.com/albums/vv121/my1930/
- the display in these pics is 27" deep.

A UK site:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/s...d.php?t=326416

Reef Builders has some pics up of the new KR92 series

Another at nano-reef but for some reason I add the link and it goes to RC index: Do a google on this topic - Nano-reef
Eco-Lamps LED Reef Light (KR91) Review, Another look at an interesting LED light

There is also some non-english sites that I found with comparison pictures of T5 vs KR91's - all very accessible info for all.

Of course the KR92 was only released on Sept 1st ... the day the Group Buy started. This will be the really exciting one to watch.

So while it was a bit of a leap of faith, there was plenty of very positive comments. Also - I must say that we did manage to get a very nice price from Eco-Lamps which made it most worthwhile for us to take the LED plunge.

I myself have gone with the KR91's because I have no SPS...this is to replace my T5 lights. There's a good mix of 91's and 92's in various sizes coming in. Some have spent several thousand -- some like me, a few hundred for a 24" fixture. Summer is coming to Australia and we're dead keen to get heat out of the tank.

It's rather interesting ... in spite of the value of this Group Buy and that the members really are not expected to make payment until after the demo units have been evaluated, the payments are already going through.

The other thing I suppose that has really been amazing is the absolute belief this company has in its product. This is a company that works in the forefront of LED technology...and just so happens to have some keen reefers at the top level. THAT was probably what really convinced me --- because in my eyes the best of two worlds have finally colided!

Ya know ... maybe I am the eternal optimist but I've been dealing with manufacturers in Australia and OS for 20 years. You get a feeling for real potential and those wannabee's.

My main concern right now is how to stop the local MASA boys from going blind when we fire these babies up!

Stay tuned! I plan to start a thread at RTAW forum that will allow everyone to contribute.

[jglackin]

I really hope these work. I love my Solaris, at least the concept and the functionality, so I am looking forward to the day when I can switch out the LEDs and use it again.

I just picked up a ATI Powermodule today to replace my Solaris. I have talked to a great number of people, including people from Solaris, over the past week or two about lighting and lighting technology and there are few that feel that LED is ready. I hope they are wrong.

Good luck. Please feel free to PM me along the way to give me some "I told you so" progress pictures.

[Andrea_Aust]

Both the KR91 and KR92 demo units have landed.

http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB2/viewto...=677380#677380

[wesley6610]

The KR92 looks very impressive and a clean design, I will be following these reviews closely for sure.

[dickenscd]

Whole tank view to show the growth under LED.

175G tank (24"D x 30"H x 72"L bowfront) and Solaris I4 were setup in Dec. 2007, 2" or smaller frags for SPS green slime, blue tip acro, purple tip acro were planted within 3 months.


Picture taken on 09/10/08




Picture taken on 02/05/2009



Picture taken on 09/11/2009



I found that SPS grows in different form under LED, and the intensity of Solaris I4 is possibly the minimum requirement for growing SPS. Any new LED with less intensity than Solaris I4 will be a problem.


I will post pictures for separate tank in the same water system, but under 250W MH + T5 (Giesemann) for comparison, also share some more problems of LED when I get time.



James

[dickenscd]

For comparing Solaris I4 and 250W MH + T5, the following pictures shows the coral growths in my 225G (24"D x 30"H x 72") tank with Giesemann 250W MH + T5. This tank share the same water system with my 175G under Solaris I4 with similar water flow, and setup at the same time in Dec. 2007.

Picture taken on 08/11/2008



Picture taken on 09/11/2009



Picture taken on 08/11/2008



Picture taken on 09/11/2009



So whiich one is better?


Solaris I4 or 250W MH + T5?


James

[wesley6610]

Thanks James, this is very helpful indeed!

[Little Lucy 27]

Hi, I am new and this is my first post,lol...here. I have been researching "creative" lighting as I am setting up a 75 gallon...While in the lighting section at Wal-Mart (cringe) I found many home applications using LED...the ones I thought might work were the outdoor floodlights...however, there is little to no info on the package regarding output etc..as a matter of fact it was very vague as if even they didn't know. BUT! I found it inspiring as they seem to be evolving..I do not have the power/wiring at this home for the M/H at the moment...soooo...shopping shopping :-)
Thanks for a great forum...love it!

[Andrea_Aust]

James they are fantastic pictures and comparisons.

I took the KR's to our MASAOG presidents place yesterday. His tank is empty but for the sake of the exercise he had a 250W MH and 4xT5 running on one side and then we set up the KR92 on the other. The difference was astounding - in terms of what we saw the KR92 clearly far more intense than the MH+T5s.

He had some pretty schmick photography gear there but it was impossible to show the comparison with a photo ... even with manually manipulating the ISO etc.

The KR91 was then placed on the tank - certainly here the 250W MH was brighter - so there is a distinct difference between the KR91 and KR92.

What we found though was when the MH was turned off, the KR91 blitzed the T5 fixtures. I actually thought he had also turned the T5's off too. When he told me the T5's were running I was surprised.

So with that we now have some visual comparisons and by all accounts the KR92 is certainly looking the 'goods'.

[Editour2]

Can you tell me if the KR92 unit has built in fans? If so, where are they located? Separate external ballasts or built into the fixture? Do you know how many watts a 48" fixture is rated for?
thanks,
Frank

[Andrea_Aust]

Originally posted by Editour2
Can you tell me if the KR92 unit has built in fans? If so, where are they located? Separate external ballasts or built into the fixture? Do you know how many watts a 48" fixture is rated for?
thanks,
Frank

Hi Frank,

Yes the KR92 has fans - they are built into the body so you can't see them ... but they are audible. The Kr91 does not have fans but then it is not as powerful a fitting as the 92 series.

The Kr92-48 is rated at 200W / 110V AC

[Editour2]

Thanks for the info I am trying to get a group buy together here in the US. Do the KR92's have internal or external ballasts? If external how many? Do these fixtures have daylight (white light), actinics and moon lights?

Frank

[Andrea_Aust]

Originally posted by Editour2
Thanks for the info I am trying to get a group buy together here in the US. Do the KR92's have internal or external ballasts? If external how many? Do these fixtures have daylight (white light), actinics and moon lights?

Frank

Sorry I'm not sure whether a ballast and a driver is the same thing?

If they are - then the answer is that the KR lights come with external drivers. Depending on the power rating, some may have one and others will have 2.

Here are the 2 drivers that come with the KR92-36


I know the KR92-24 only has one driver so it does depend on the power of the light fitting.

The KR91-36 being a less powerful light came with just one of the same drivers as the KR92-36.

I assume they do have some smaller drivers for smaller lights because my Kr91-24 came with a slightly smaller driver again.

The light controls allow the user to time 3 light modes --- moonlight - sunrise / sunset - daylight.

Sunrise and sunset is the same thing but in that it runs the actinic lights but the program treats them as two separate modes.

Daylight runs with both white and actinics -- sunrise / sunset uses just blue / actinic and moonlight runs a small group of blue lights. You set the times you want to begin the lighting cycle and how long you want each mode on for ... pretty simple process.

I must say I was kinda shocked to see how effective the moonlight mode was with just 6 blue LED's. They are in one corner (which I thought at first was odd) but I can see why now. They are very powerful little LEDs and the effects of the moonlight at one end really looks very, very natural as it casts a gentle hue across the entire tank.

The best news for me ... I had some zoanthid up high under my ATI T5's and slowly but surely that colony was decliing. I only found out the other day that they really require strong light (they are the bright orange centre with the fluro green skirt) ... I was down to 3 open polyps and about 7 that had not opened in over a week. After just 2 days running the KR91 LED I see there are 2 more polyps opening this morning!

So I am wrapped!

[usefulidiot213]

This is a great thread. I have never seen any tank pics with LED lighting. I have also never read anything about what people think about their LED lights..