DSB in a bucket for nitrate control - Page 40

Kurt03 · 07/12/2006, 04:56 PM

ok was just trying to figure out were the o2 was being used up, and its actually inside the tubing. Has it worked well for you?
About the sump, its worked out well, i have a closet right next to my tank so i just plumbed it right to there and now i have plenty of room

Now if i can just find where to put either my DSB or this Denitrater. :P

neuroslicer · 07/12/2006, 05:08 PM

Earlier this year I had been using a Hagen NO3 test kit which was reading ~10, and when I bought a new kit (salifert) it read 50! Turns out the Hagen reagents were old. Rather than be scientifically systematic, I changed several things at once: added a chaeto/mud refugium (see gallery), added the denitrator, added a UV sterilizer, upgraded my skimmer (aquac urchin pro)and most recently added a phosphate reactor. My NO3 and PO4 are barely detectable now. I alternate a very small amount of phosban and run it for ~3-4 days before I switch it out for carbon... you have to watch your alkalinity with phosban. Coral are growing better now and the tank is purpling up faster than ever before!

Daemonfly · 07/12/2006, 10:54 PM

The problem with de-nitrator coils is getting them tuned correctly. You need the proper flow rate for them to work right, proper length of coil, etc... There's been lots of threads on these. They do work, but require more work in setting them up & keeping them running properly.

Buckets are easy in their implementation as you just need to have clean water flowing over them.

ZenMan · 07/20/2006, 04:11 PM

Is there a limit to the depth of a RDSB? I'm thinking of plumbing to my basement where I could use a 55 gallon Plastic Drum for a RDSB. If I filled this with silica sand (We don't have access to Southdown or equivalent sands here in Colorado), would it work okay, or should I limit the depth of the sand?

Thanks for any insight.

Jeff

Kinetic · 07/20/2006, 04:13 PM

For a 40g display and 30g sump (about 70g of water volume) what dimensions for a RDSB would I need?

scrager · 07/21/2006, 05:20 AM

depth was just covered on the last page. you need about 18-20 inches. any more is really just a waste of sand, but won't hurt anything.

Kinetic: start with a 5G bucket

luckybaker4 · 07/21/2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scrager
depth was just covered on the last page. you need about 18-20 inches. any more is really just a waste of sand, but won't hurt anything.

Kinetic: start with a 5G bucket

Whoa whoa whoa, I thought Randy said that you only need 8 inches. I've read all 40 pages, but I must not remember the talk of 18-20 inches.

Is a bucket even that deep?

luckybaker4 · 07/21/2006, 12:19 PM

I started re-reading all 40 pages and found this on the second page... He is reporting 0 nitrates.

Quote:

Originally posted by A.G
am using pump rated for 250gph.Sand is about 10-11" deep

luckybaker4 · 07/21/2006, 12:46 PM

An update from him, this is with 10"

Quote:

Originally posted by A.G
Hey,

Its been over a month now since I installed the DSB bcuket. I added 2 more fish to my system and stoped doing water changes to see how effective this thing is.

Nitrate : undetectable

Its really one of the best thing I have done so far to my 80g.

A.G

scrager · 07/21/2006, 01:30 PM

sorry, i meant to say 18-20 inches MAX

posted on top of page 39:

Quote:

This was already discussed somewhere int his thread. The thing is that after 2 feet of dept the quantity of NO3 consumed is not much. Oxygen will be consumed rapidly at the first 1/3 or so of the bucket after that, the bacteria that predominates are either facultative or anaerobic. No im not saying that surface area in the DSB in a bucket's designed to provide area for aerobic bacteria. You want more area so more gasses can diffuse through the sand. So if u ask what's better depth or superficial area ill tell u that as long as u have at least 18" of depth, go for as much superficial area as u can.

The 8" is the minimum depth that you want to start becoming effective. A DSB is technically 4" or deeper in tank, but you see better results at 8"+ minimum but you get diminishing returns after 18-20"

does that make more sense?

luckybaker4 · 07/21/2006, 02:36 PM

Gotcha, makes sense. I just bought a garbage pail last night for about 11" of sand and I was getting a bit worried

Noise · 07/26/2006, 12:46 PM

I just finished reading all 40 pages and I deserve a t-shirt.

Took me a week.

Here is my FAQ for the thread.

Q. What if I ........?

A: Then you would ruin everything. Address it in another thread.

Q. Can I ..........?\

A. No you can't.

Q. I don't know if this was asked before but........?

A. Yes it was, read the thread.

scrager · 07/26/2006, 02:23 PM

you forgot one

how do i plumb a deep sand bed?
Bucket, fill with sand to within 5 inches of top
put bulkhead in and bulkhead out at 2 inches from top
pump water into bucket and drain to sump.

bguile · 07/26/2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scrager
you forgot one

how do i plumb a deep sand bed?
Bucket, fill with sand to within 5 inches of top
put bulkhead in and bulkhead out at 2 inches from top
pump water into bucket and drain to sump.

That's all folks!!!

"That was easy!!"

Kinetic · 07/27/2006, 01:49 AM

remember to put a lid on it too

i think he has his off just to show.

scrager · 07/27/2006, 05:59 AM

a lid doesn't really matter. mainly to keep light out so algae won't grow. if there are no lights in the sump then you wouldn't need a lid either.

Kinetic · 07/27/2006, 11:03 AM

that's why it does matter. Keep all the light out. AND keep the saltcreep down.

bguile · 07/28/2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kinetic
that's why it does matter. Keep all the light out. AND keep the saltcreep down.

Yes, the lid is off AND the light is on just for show. I only use the light so that i can see when I'm working, otherwise it's off and the bucket is covered.

EnderG60 · 07/29/2006, 07:57 AM

man this is a long thread, but a good one!

Ok Im going to try one of these buckets o sand on my 58g reef. Ive tried all i can, lots of live rock(up to about 120+ lbs now) macro algea and even rock rubble in the trickle section of the sump still getting nitrates in the 20's.

Now I have a few questions. I can get sand from the beach(mostly crushed shell's grains about 1-3mm) Can i use this sand? Can I just use this right away or should i rinse it out first? Should i get wet or dry sand?

Secondly, I have a carbon/phosgard reactor that is run off a maxijet 1200, can I run the bucket off the output of this?, seems like the output of 200ish gph would be enough to keep crud from settling out and the reactor before hand would catch 90% of it anyway, but I just want to make sure running it through this stuff isnt a problem.

And I never really saw an answer for this one, but how long is the average time it takes for these to start showing effects? 2-4 weeks?

and lastly, I would plan on changing it out evey year or so, would I have to totally trash the sand and get new, or could i rinse the sand out with freash water and reuse it?

thanks

DgenR8 · 07/29/2006, 08:33 AM

I don't think beach sand is a good idea at all, unless you are in some tropical area with very low population (I don't think Ga. qualifies).
People are basically filthy animals, and nearly anything we touch, is fouled from that point forward. I would not trust beach sand, we have already ruined it.

kenbennedy · 07/29/2006, 02:34 PM

even if the beach is remote and human trash free, there are plenty of animals on the beach that deposit their own little "presents," none of which you would want in your tank, I wouldnt want a bird pooping in my sand

EnderG60 · 07/29/2006, 04:47 PM

well in that case would boiling it be a good idea? beach is in edisto island in SC private property BTW.

and what about the other stuff? rinse and reuse?, time to see results?

scrager · 07/29/2006, 07:20 PM

it's not about living things in the beach sand, it's about polution. stuff in the sand will decompose or leech, causing your levels to rise. the point of a DSB is to reduce levels. it's not good to add more into the system taht it will have to overcome

sand is cheap. You don't have to have any special kind. $5/bag play sand at HD will do just fine. you'd probably only need one bag...two at most for a 5G bucket

as for rinse and reuse, you have to worry about stirring up the bad stuff that stays at the bottom of a sand bed. here again, sand is cheap so you could just start over. Might even want to run the two simultaneously for a month or two so that the new bucket can get seeded and you aren't just removing all the anerobic bacteria at one time.

EnderG60 · 07/30/2006, 12:00 AM

point taken, there is just so much sitting there I really want to use some

anyway, what are you thoughts to using the output of the carbon/phosgard reactor for the RDSB?

and is the 2-4 weeks curring about right?

JohnL · 07/30/2006, 12:00 AM

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=896352

07/20/2006, 04:11 PM	#979
ZenMan Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lakewood, CO Posts: 574	Is there a limit to the depth of a RDSB? I'm thinking of plumbing to my basement where I could use a 55 gallon Plastic Drum for a RDSB. If I filled this with silica sand (We don't have access to Southdown or equivalent sands here in Colorado), would it work okay, or should I limit the depth of the sand? Thanks for any insight. Jeff __________________ 670 Gallon 3 Sided Peninsula with four MP60s and two Tunze 6305s that output only half their stated flow! Current Tank Info: 670 Gallon Acrylic In-Wall

07/29/2006, 08:33 AM	#995
DgenR8 I'm an American and I remember Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 43,992	I don't think beach sand is a good idea at all, unless you are in some tropical area with very low population (I don't think Ga. qualifies). People are basically filthy animals, and nearly anything we touch, is fouled from that point forward. I would not trust beach sand, we have already ruined it. __________________ “I wish there was a way to know that you were IN the good old days, before leaving them.” ~Andy Bernard Regional Manager, Scranton branch Dunder Mifflin Current Tank Info: Unknown slow drip, over 20 years damaged my house and heating system. No more tank.

07/29/2006, 02:34 PM	#996
kenbennedy Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Columbia, MD Posts: 57	beach sand even if the beach is remote and human trash free, there are plenty of animals on the beach that deposit their own little "presents," none of which you would want in your tank, I wouldnt want a bird pooping in my sand __________________ Ben Current Tank Info: 30 Gal TBS w/ fuge

07/12/2006, 04:56 PM	#976
Kurt03 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,602	ok was just trying to figure out were the o2 was being used up, and its actually inside the tubing. Has it worked well for you? About the sump, its worked out well, i have a closet right next to my tank so i just plumbed it right to there and now i have plenty of room Now if i can just find where to put either my DSB or this Denitrater. :P

07/12/2006, 05:08 PM	#977
neuroslicer Old School Reefer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Memphis Posts: 1,238	Earlier this year I had been using a Hagen NO3 test kit which was reading ~10, and when I bought a new kit (salifert) it read 50! Turns out the Hagen reagents were old. Rather than be scientifically systematic, I changed several things at once: added a chaeto/mud refugium (see gallery), added the denitrator, added a UV sterilizer, upgraded my skimmer (aquac urchin pro)and most recently added a phosphate reactor. My NO3 and PO4 are barely detectable now. I alternate a very small amount of phosban and run it for ~3-4 days before I switch it out for carbon... you have to watch your alkalinity with phosban. Coral are growing better now and the tank is purpling up faster than ever before!

07/12/2006, 10:54 PM	#978
Daemonfly Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Pa Posts: 806	The problem with de-nitrator coils is getting them tuned correctly. You need the proper flow rate for them to work right, proper length of coil, etc... There's been lots of threads on these. They do work, but require more work in setting them up & keeping them running properly. Buckets are easy in their implementation as you just need to have clean water flowing over them.

07/20/2006, 04:13 PM	#980
Kinetic Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 7,230	For a 40g display and 30g sump (about 70g of water volume) what dimensions for a RDSB would I need?

07/21/2006, 05:20 AM	#981
scrager Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 182	depth was just covered on the last page. you need about 18-20 inches. any more is really just a waste of sand, but won't hurt anything. Kinetic: start with a 5G bucket

07/21/2006, 02:36 PM	#986
luckybaker4 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kansas Posts: 109	Gotcha, makes sense. I just bought a garbage pail last night for about 11" of sand and I was getting a bit worried

07/26/2006, 12:46 PM	#987
Noise Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 291	I just finished reading all 40 pages and I deserve a t-shirt. Took me a week. Here is my FAQ for the thread. Q. What if I ........? A: Then you would ruin everything. Address it in another thread. Q. Can I ..........?\ A. No you can't. Q. I don't know if this was asked before but........? A. Yes it was, read the thread.

07/26/2006, 02:23 PM	#988
scrager Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 182	you forgot one how do i plumb a deep sand bed? Bucket, fill with sand to within 5 inches of top put bulkhead in and bulkhead out at 2 inches from top pump water into bucket and drain to sump.

07/27/2006, 01:49 AM	#990
Kinetic Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 7,230	remember to put a lid on it too i think he has his off just to show.

07/27/2006, 05:59 AM	#991
scrager Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 182	a lid doesn't really matter. mainly to keep light out so algae won't grow. if there are no lights in the sump then you wouldn't need a lid either.

07/27/2006, 11:03 AM	#992
Kinetic Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 7,230	that's why it does matter. Keep all the light out. AND keep the saltcreep down.

07/29/2006, 07:57 AM	#994
EnderG60 Plumbing Engineer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 3,260	man this is a long thread, but a good one! Ok Im going to try one of these buckets o sand on my 58g reef. Ive tried all i can, lots of live rock(up to about 120+ lbs now) macro algea and even rock rubble in the trickle section of the sump still getting nitrates in the 20's. Now I have a few questions. I can get sand from the beach(mostly crushed shell's grains about 1-3mm) Can i use this sand? Can I just use this right away or should i rinse it out first? Should i get wet or dry sand? Secondly, I have a carbon/phosgard reactor that is run off a maxijet 1200, can I run the bucket off the output of this?, seems like the output of 200ish gph would be enough to keep crud from settling out and the reactor before hand would catch 90% of it anyway, but I just want to make sure running it through this stuff isnt a problem. And I never really saw an answer for this one, but how long is the average time it takes for these to start showing effects? 2-4 weeks? and lastly, I would plan on changing it out evey year or so, would I have to totally trash the sand and get new, or could i rinse the sand out with freash water and reuse it? thanks

07/29/2006, 04:47 PM	#997
EnderG60 Plumbing Engineer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 3,260	well in that case would boiling it be a good idea? beach is in edisto island in SC private property BTW. and what about the other stuff? rinse and reuse?, time to see results?

07/29/2006, 07:20 PM	#998
scrager Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 182	it's not about living things in the beach sand, it's about polution. stuff in the sand will decompose or leech, causing your levels to rise. the point of a DSB is to reduce levels. it's not good to add more into the system taht it will have to overcome sand is cheap. You don't have to have any special kind. $5/bag play sand at HD will do just fine. you'd probably only need one bag...two at most for a 5G bucket as for rinse and reuse, you have to worry about stirring up the bad stuff that stays at the bottom of a sand bed. here again, sand is cheap so you could just start over. Might even want to run the two simultaneously for a month or two so that the new bucket can get seeded and you aren't just removing all the anerobic bacteria at one time.

07/30/2006, 12:00 AM	#999
EnderG60 Plumbing Engineer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 3,260	point taken, there is just so much sitting there I really want to use some anyway, what are you thoughts to using the output of the carbon/phosgard reactor for the RDSB? and is the 2-4 weeks curring about right?

07/30/2006, 12:00 AM	#1000
JohnL RC Staff Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 14,431	This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=896352