New Canister Filter + BioBalls vs. Ceramic Rings?

tastingSalty · 01/26/2009, 04:22 PM

Hi guys,

I have a new canister filter coming in in a few days (Marineland C-160). I currently have chemical/biological filtration (the Eclipse Nano standard) and I was wondering how to make the transition from the old to the new. I am aware that the new bioballs in the canister filter will require time to grow the beneficial bacteria, so I was thinking of running both the old and the new filtration systems for a while until the bacteria grows. One question, how long should I wait until I can pull the plug on the old filtration (and the beneficial bacteria has sufficiently grown on the BIOballs in the canister filter)?

ALSO,

I have heard nitrate-horrors about the BIOballs. Does everyone agree that they are not optimal for conducting biological filtration? Are ceramic rings better?

Thanks to all for your help!

Chris&Mel · 01/26/2009, 04:55 PM

Be prepared to battle micro bubbles once you get that canister online. I am currently running the C-360, have replaced all the O-rings a few times, marine land sent me a new valve body (didn't help) then they sent me a hole new unit.....it does the same thing and again replaced all the hoses and O-rings. Now they are sending me a sump and return pump to replace the filter. (I think they did so I would stop calling them...lol)
All and all I am very happy with marinelands customer service, but I think they have some bugs to work out in the there C series filters.

Juruense · 01/26/2009, 05:00 PM

I would not suggest bio balls or ceramic rings as they both do the same thing and its a bad thing.

brianx45 · 01/26/2009, 05:16 PM

same here, don't use either one.

tastingSalty · 01/26/2009, 05:20 PM

Is there any decent method of biological filtration besides using a refugium?

Chris&Mel · 01/26/2009, 05:59 PM

Well....as far as I know is if you have enough live rock & live sand in your tank thats all you need for biological

JamesJR · 01/26/2009, 05:59 PM

Just live rock and sand will do more than enough.

While canister filters can be used for biological filtration, they are not very efficient biological filters. they are best used for mechanical/chemical filtration. I would use it sporadically for activated carbon/mechanical filter floss.

J.russell · 01/26/2009, 06:03 PM

I have heard of people running carbon in a canister filter

matt880305 · 01/26/2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JamesJR
Just live rock and sand will do more than enough.

While canister filters can be used for biological filtration, they are not very efficient biological filters. they are best used for mechanical/chemical filtration. I would use it sporadically for activated carbon/mechanical filter floss.

agreed but if you really really really have to use bio balls or ceramic rings be prapared to clean them often or else a lot of detris will clecked on it

tastingSalty · 01/26/2009, 06:12 PM

So i've done some more reading on the BIOballs. . . it seems that there is a consensus that keeping them clean (removing detritus clinging to them) is required in order to reap their benefits:

Bio Balls, Heaven sent or Dealing w/the Devil

I think I'll try them out and do my best to keep them clean. We'll see how they work out!

One more question,

How long do you guys estimate it will take for the nitrifying bacteria to sufficiently grow on the BIOballs?

J.russell · 01/26/2009, 06:26 PM

Thats the problem. You have to clean them so much there wont be any time for the good bacteria to build up.

tastingSalty · 01/26/2009, 06:44 PM

I don't think that I will have to clean detritus off of them too often, as mechanical and chemical filtration will precede the biological filtration (BIOballs) in the canister, therefore removing most of DOCs. Also, the recommended procedure in this article is to clean 1/4 of the BIOballs at a time. This way, even if I have to do a cleaning EACH month, I will only be threatening any single bacterial colony every 4 months. Plus, accounts have claimed the BIOballs improve dissolved oxygen in the water.

Brent RH · 01/26/2009, 07:02 PM

Not going to agree with anything good relative it your can. filter. I would return it as soon as it makes it to your house. I tried what your about to for a year and its a mucky mess. How about just working with what you have. If I am picturing it right you have a little overflow filter system on the back of the tank with a mini pro. skimmer? Is your current system NOT cutting it? Not trying to be a pain but rather make your system better. sounds to me like you might be down grading

J.russell · 01/26/2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tastingSalty
I don't think that I will have to clean detritus off of them too often

You will have to clean atleast twice a month depending on stocking and feeding habbits.

Quote:

Originally posted by tastingSalty

even if I have to do a cleaning EACH month, I will only be threatening any single bacterial colony every 4 months. Plus, accounts have claimed the BIOballs improve dissolved oxygen in the water.

And aslong as you have good water movement on the surface, that will provide plenty of oxygen exchange.

I myself, along with many many others, thought it would be ok to use a canister filter and found out the hard way that just was not the case. There is a reason 98 out of 100 people dont use a canister filter.

reefman30 · 01/26/2009, 08:59 PM

Live rock and sand handle the biological filtration. Use the canister for carbon.

Juruense · 01/26/2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reefman30
Live rock and sand handle the biological filtration. Use the canister for carbon.

+1

tastingSalty · 01/27/2009, 09:14 PM

Thanks all for your help.

troyman · 01/28/2009, 02:24 AM

i have the c 530 filter on a 125 goldfish tank i think its great never found a filter that kept that tank clean this one does

SoLiD · 01/28/2009, 02:37 AM

I used a canister filter (Rena Filstar XP3) long ago as my main filtration on my first 125G system. What a Nitrate Bomb. 99.9% of the Canister Filters are just Not gonna cut it on a Marine Aquarium.

Thet make great Carbon Reactors though...

Michael · 01/28/2009, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Juruense
I would not suggest bio balls or ceramic rings as they both do the same thing and its a bad thing.

i agree, either fill it with carbon or connect it to a uv, or just run it empty to aid water volume

IslandCrow · 01/28/2009, 08:45 AM

There's another issue with bioballs or ceramic media other than just keeping them clean. Neither media provides an anoxic region for bacteria to convert nitrate to nitrogen gas. In other words, although they do an awesome job converting ammonia and nitrite to nitrate, you're left with the nitrate in your tank. For a fish only tank, worse case is this leads to some algae problems. If you're thinking about keeping corals, I'd certainly do without either bioballs or ceramic rings. If you have a fish only tank and don't have an adequate supply of live rock, then either of the two should be fine, though bioballs were really designed for a trickle filter, not an enclosed canister filter.

As mentioned, though, canister filters are great for running carbon.

01/26/2009, 04:22 PM	#1
tastingSalty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Algonquin, IL Posts: 498	New Canister Filter + BioBalls vs. Ceramic Rings? Hi guys, I have a new canister filter coming in in a few days (Marineland C-160). I currently have chemical/biological filtration (the Eclipse Nano standard) and I was wondering how to make the transition from the old to the new. I am aware that the new bioballs in the canister filter will require time to grow the beneficial bacteria, so I was thinking of running both the old and the new filtration systems for a while until the bacteria grows. One question, how long should I wait until I can pull the plug on the old filtration (and the beneficial bacteria has sufficiently grown on the BIOballs in the canister filter)? ALSO, I have heard nitrate-horrors about the BIOballs. Does everyone agree that they are not optimal for conducting biological filtration? Are ceramic rings better? Thanks to all for your help!

01/26/2009, 04:55 PM	#2
Chris&Mel Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 597	Be prepared to battle micro bubbles once you get that canister online. I am currently running the C-360, have replaced all the O-rings a few times, marine land sent me a new valve body (didn't help) then they sent me a hole new unit.....it does the same thing and again replaced all the hoses and O-rings. Now they are sending me a sump and return pump to replace the filter. (I think they did so I would stop calling them...lol) All and all I am very happy with marinelands customer service, but I think they have some bugs to work out in the there C series filters. __________________ I let my wife think she is the brains of this operation Current Tank Info: 60 gal ,36" sun dial T-5, super skimmer 220, #2&#3 korilia's, marineland 20gal sump, 80pd's LR, 30 pd's LS

01/26/2009, 05:20 PM	#5
tastingSalty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Algonquin, IL Posts: 498	Is there any decent method of biological filtration besides using a refugium? __________________ ~\| Jon \|~ Learning is everything in reefkeeping. Current Tank Info: 12g Nano Mixed Reef Hybrid ZeoVit/Neo-Zeo, 150w MH DE, 10g sump with Octopus NWB-150 Protein Skimmer, CPR overflow, Koralia PHs, ATO.com, TLF Reactor, QuietOne Return Pump, ReefKeeper Lite

01/26/2009, 05:59 PM	#6
Chris&Mel Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 597	Well....as far as I know is if you have enough live rock & live sand in your tank thats all you need for biological __________________ I let my wife think she is the brains of this operation Current Tank Info: 60 gal ,36" sun dial T-5, super skimmer 220, #2&#3 korilia's, marineland 20gal sump, 80pd's LR, 30 pd's LS

01/26/2009, 05:59 PM	#7
JamesJR Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,733	Just live rock and sand will do more than enough. While canister filters can be used for biological filtration, they are not very efficient biological filters. they are best used for mechanical/chemical filtration. I would use it sporadically for activated carbon/mechanical filter floss. __________________ Just when I thought you couldn't be any dumber you go and do something like this....And totally redeem yourself! Current Tank Info: 20 gallon

01/26/2009, 05:00 PM	#3
Juruense Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Posts: 1,138	I would not suggest bio balls or ceramic rings as they both do the same thing and its a bad thing.

01/26/2009, 05:16 PM	#4
brianx45 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 56	same here, don't use either one.

01/26/2009, 06:03 PM	#8
J.russell What was I thinking??? Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Norfolk Va. Posts: 738	I have heard of people running carbon in a canister filter

01/26/2009, 06:12 PM	#10
tastingSalty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Algonquin, IL Posts: 498	So i've done some more reading on the BIOballs. . . it seems that there is a consensus that keeping them clean (removing detritus clinging to them) is required in order to reap their benefits: Bio Balls, Heaven sent or Dealing w/the Devil I think I'll try them out and do my best to keep them clean. We'll see how they work out! One more question, How long do you guys estimate it will take for the nitrifying bacteria to sufficiently grow on the BIOballs? __________________ ~\| Jon \|~ Learning is everything in reefkeeping. Current Tank Info: 12g Nano Mixed Reef Hybrid ZeoVit/Neo-Zeo, 150w MH DE, 10g sump with Octopus NWB-150 Protein Skimmer, CPR overflow, Koralia PHs, ATO.com, TLF Reactor, QuietOne Return Pump, ReefKeeper Lite

01/26/2009, 06:26 PM	#11
J.russell What was I thinking??? Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Norfolk Va. Posts: 738	Thats the problem. You have to clean them so much there wont be any time for the good bacteria to build up.

01/26/2009, 06:44 PM	#12
tastingSalty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Algonquin, IL Posts: 498	I don't think that I will have to clean detritus off of them too often, as mechanical and chemical filtration will precede the biological filtration (BIOballs) in the canister, therefore removing most of DOCs. Also, the recommended procedure in this article is to clean 1/4 of the BIOballs at a time. This way, even if I have to do a cleaning EACH month, I will only be threatening any single bacterial colony every 4 months. Plus, accounts have claimed the BIOballs improve dissolved oxygen in the water. __________________ ~\| Jon \|~ Learning is everything in reefkeeping. Current Tank Info: 12g Nano Mixed Reef Hybrid ZeoVit/Neo-Zeo, 150w MH DE, 10g sump with Octopus NWB-150 Protein Skimmer, CPR overflow, Koralia PHs, ATO.com, TLF Reactor, QuietOne Return Pump, ReefKeeper Lite

01/26/2009, 07:02 PM	#13
Brent RH Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: central Minnesota Posts: 311	Not going to agree with anything good relative it your can. filter. I would return it as soon as it makes it to your house. I tried what your about to for a year and its a mucky mess. How about just working with what you have. If I am picturing it right you have a little overflow filter system on the back of the tank with a mini pro. skimmer? Is your current system NOT cutting it? Not trying to be a pain but rather make your system better. sounds to me like you might be down grading

01/26/2009, 08:59 PM	#15
reefman30 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Midland, Texas Posts: 137	Live rock and sand handle the biological filtration. Use the canister for carbon.

01/27/2009, 09:14 PM	#17
tastingSalty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Algonquin, IL Posts: 498	Thanks all for your help. __________________ ~\| Jon \|~ Learning is everything in reefkeeping. Current Tank Info: 12g Nano Mixed Reef Hybrid ZeoVit/Neo-Zeo, 150w MH DE, 10g sump with Octopus NWB-150 Protein Skimmer, CPR overflow, Koralia PHs, ATO.com, TLF Reactor, QuietOne Return Pump, ReefKeeper Lite

01/28/2009, 02:24 AM	#18
troyman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: troy ny Posts: 1,025	i have the c 530 filter on a 125 goldfish tank i think its great never found a filter that kept that tank clean this one does

01/28/2009, 02:37 AM	#19
SoLiD -=Snake=- Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 999	I used a canister filter (Rena Filstar XP3) long ago as my main filtration on my first 125G system. What a Nitrate Bomb. 99.9% of the Canister Filters are just Not gonna cut it on a Marine Aquarium. Thet make great Carbon Reactors though... __________________ -David 40 Gallon Breeder on Steroids!!! Current Tank Info: Where you'll find an Acan and Orange Ricordea Garden in Bloom...

01/28/2009, 08:45 AM	#21
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	There's another issue with bioballs or ceramic media other than just keeping them clean. Neither media provides an anoxic region for bacteria to convert nitrate to nitrogen gas. In other words, although they do an awesome job converting ammonia and nitrite to nitrate, you're left with the nitrate in your tank. For a fish only tank, worse case is this leads to some algae problems. If you're thinking about keeping corals, I'd certainly do without either bioballs or ceramic rings. If you have a fish only tank and don't have an adequate supply of live rock, then either of the two should be fine, though bioballs were really designed for a trickle filter, not an enclosed canister filter. As mentioned, though, canister filters are great for running carbon. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?