Dr. Tim's One & Only Dead Clownfish

shawnriv · 05/15/2014, 08:28 PM

Hi,

I purchased two true percula clowns from my LFS and put them in quarantine for three weeks using Seachem's Paraguard for preventative treatment. I was using cycled tank water from my other tank. Both clowns were eating and doing great. In the meantime I began a new 29G reef aquarium. I purchased 30lbs of live sand and 30lbs of dry rock. After the clowns were done with quarantine I added Dr. Tim's One & Only 12 hours before adding the new clowns and things were great. The clowns were very active and eating well. After 48 hours I turned on the protein skimmer and everything remained well in the tank. I came home today from work and one of the clown was on the bottom of the tank breathing heavily. I immediately took him out and put him back in the quarantine tank...he died one hour later. I have no idea what happened. Since the new tank is still cycling with Dr. Tim's the ammonia level has been around .50ppm. So far the other clown is still doing okay (knock on wood).

Mrramsey · 05/15/2014, 08:36 PM

Misread...

shawnriv · 05/15/2014, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrramsey

Misread...

I'm sorry?

Dangleflow9 · 05/15/2014, 08:43 PM

Also, while the fish was clearly extremely stressed, if your salinity, pH, temp, etc. were not perfectly identical to your 29G setup, you likely stressed the fish more, quickening the death.

Mrramsey · 05/15/2014, 08:46 PM

I initially posted a response but then realized I misread your post. I had thought you said you cycled the qt with water. There is no good bacteria in water. The ammonia needs to be zero anything above is toxic.

shawnriv · 05/15/2014, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dangleflow9

Also, while the fish was clearly extremely stressed, if your salinity, pH, temp, etc. were not perfectly identical to your 29G setup, you likely stressed the fish more, quickening the death.

I was thinking the same but called Vivid Aquariums and they recommended adding him back to the QT.

scott3569 · 05/15/2014, 08:47 PM

Well for one you went about it all wrong, you will probably lose the other clown, since you still have amonia..when you do, BEFORE YOU GET ANY MORE LIVE STOCK...educate your self by reading the stickys in this forum and any other forum for that matter..

shawnriv · 05/15/2014, 09:07 PM

That's what I get for listening to an "expert" like Dr. Tim.
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com

scott3569 · 05/15/2014, 09:27 PM

yeah I know what he says, I used his product also, But you need to make sure you are n't going to have any ammonia before thinking about adding fish, and the bacteria product that he sells is suppose to be used with ammonia..So I don't think you read it fully or didn't understand it fully

shawnriv · 05/15/2014, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott3569

yeah I know what he says, I used his product also, But you need to make sure you are n't going to have any ammonia before thinking about adding fish, and the bacteria product that he sells is suppose to be used with ammonia..So I don't think you read it fully or didn't understand it fully

I'm honestly not sure what happened. I even purchased Mr. Saltwater Tank's book and he gave instructions exactly what to do. He actually recommended adding the bottle of nitrifying bacteria (no ammonia) and putting the fish in right behind it. My fingers are crossed the other guy makes it.

davocean · 05/15/2014, 09:42 PM

I can't say I put much stock in either of the two mentioned.
I have known some people in the industry that would like to increase the market place by making it fast and easy, and they leaned this direction, to which i strongly disagree.
Nothing good comes in rushing.
Sorry for the lesson learned.

melvinakshay · 05/15/2014, 10:43 PM

Lol the topic heading was pretty funny.

Firstly - If I read it right you bought live rock already. Why did you add bacteria to it ??

Damsels are pretty hardy and I know a lot of them do use them during cycling a tank.. but they aren't bullet proof. Hopefully the other one makes it through. You can't fix the damage done by ammonia.

What is the current ammonia/nitrates/nitrites though ? I'm not sure what you added as an ammonia source but with live rock and the added live bacteria it should have been cycled by now.

SwampyBill · 05/16/2014, 12:41 AM

There's no shortcuts in this hobby. Get other clown in QT ASAP. I'm w/ Davocean--I wouldn't use either product; & definitely wouldn't add fish days after adding ammonia product. Flip the script & imagine trying to breathe in a nasty, smoke-filled room. That would burn your airway & lungs; ammonia will burn a fish's gills. Let a tank cycle on it's own time, 6--8 weeks, or this is a result. Mother Nature comes & bites you in the backside...Good luck w/ other clownfish & let this be a lesson in patience. You'll need it in this hobby--only good thing that happens fast in saltwater is a water change.

mcozad829 · 05/16/2014, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnriv

I'm honestly not sure what happened. I even purchased Mr. Saltwater Tank's book and he gave instructions exactly what to do. He actually recommended adding the bottle of nitrifying bacteria (no ammonia) and putting the fish in right behind it. My fingers are crossed the other guy makes it.

I think you should re-read that section of the book, he specifies a waiting period.

scott3569 · 05/16/2014, 08:03 AM

No matter what happens in your current situation..from now on I would suggest researching everything you do, before you do it. don't jut ask once..ask several times, or at least find out all the information you can about the answers you are given..If you do this I think you will have a much better experience..

there are a lot of chiefs, and a lot of different ways of doing things so it can get confusing..But when you get mostly the same answer on a subject or question at hand, then you can bet it is probably correct

Xavibear · 05/16/2014, 08:41 AM

Time is better than any quick cycle product.

Sk8r · 05/16/2014, 12:18 PM

THere's no safe quick cycle, IMHO: bacteria can't produce their 'babies' any faster than nature lets them: they have to grow, feed, grow, and divide. And the rock has to acquire bacteria all the way to the core. There's no instant-miracle that will bring anything but the outer skin live. That's the flaw in all these no-waiting products. Bacteria just can't divide fast enough. The fish should be preceded by 4 weeks of snails and crabs eating the algae that grew during your four weeks of cycle.

SwampyBill · 05/16/2014, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

THere's no safe quick cycle, IMHO: bacteria can't produce their 'babies' any faster than nature lets them: they have to grow, feed, grow, and divide. And the rock has to acquire bacteria all the way to the core. There's no instant-miracle that will bring anything but the outer skin live. That's the flaw in all these no-waiting products. Bacteria just can't divide fast enough. The fish should be preceded by 4 weeks of snails and crabs eating the algae that grew during your four weeks of cycle.

^^^ +1,000 what Sk8r said...^^^

ThisGuy12 · 05/16/2014, 12:42 PM

Why do people insist on rushing the bacteria biological cycle? It'll only lead to issues like this including heartache and wasted money.

Ammonia and nitrites need to be 0ppm (or around that 0.3 is "okay").

There is only one tried and true method for cycling an that is time. Chemically dosing is only hurting the biological system.

Whistl3r · 05/16/2014, 12:53 PM

I see people post often saying my ammonia is only so and so.

Good rule of thumb, think of ammonia as you think of smoke. How much smoke is ok in the air you breath before you lay on your side and slowly die?

Answer = anything above 0 is a problem.

igot2gats · 05/16/2014, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

THere's no safe quick cycle, IMHO: bacteria can't produce their 'babies' any faster than nature lets them: they have to grow, feed, grow, and divide. And the rock has to acquire bacteria all the way to the core. There's no instant-miracle that will bring anything but the outer skin live. That's the flaw in all these no-waiting products. Bacteria just can't divide fast enough. The fish should be preceded by 4 weeks of snails and crabs eating the algae that grew during your four weeks of cycle.

This

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThisGuy12

Why do people insist on rushing the bacteria biological cycle? It'll only lead to issues like this including heartache and wasted money.

Who knows....at least there's no logical reason behind it (see Sk8r's post).

Not only that, but cyclying your tank the 'normal' way, teaches you patience, something you'll need A LOT of.

It just really sucks and is sad that there's products out there just to make 'a buck.'

tallball158 · 05/17/2014, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistl3r

I see people post often saying my ammonia is only so and so.

Good rule of thumb, think of ammonia as you think of smoke. How much smoke is ok in the air you breath before you lay on your side and slowly die?

Answer = anything above 0 is a problem.

+1 any ammonia is extremely toxic and WILL kill fish. Anything above 0 is an issue.

ThisGuy12 · 05/17/2014, 05:42 PM

Now now, ammonia at 0.3ppm is within acceptable range. Especially if your tank is overstocked...

But I agree dr. Tim's is a waste of money. Patience is needed in this hobby.

05/15/2014, 08:28 PM	#1
shawnriv Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 185	Dr. Tim's One & Only Dead Clownfish Hi, I purchased two true percula clowns from my LFS and put them in quarantine for three weeks using Seachem's Paraguard for preventative treatment. I was using cycled tank water from my other tank. Both clowns were eating and doing great. In the meantime I began a new 29G reef aquarium. I purchased 30lbs of live sand and 30lbs of dry rock. After the clowns were done with quarantine I added Dr. Tim's One & Only 12 hours before adding the new clowns and things were great. The clowns were very active and eating well. After 48 hours I turned on the protein skimmer and everything remained well in the tank. I came home today from work and one of the clown was on the bottom of the tank breathing heavily. I immediately took him out and put him back in the quarantine tank...he died one hour later. I have no idea what happened. Since the new tank is still cycling with Dr. Tim's the ammonia level has been around .50ppm. So far the other clown is still doing okay (knock on wood).

05/15/2014, 08:36 PM	#2
Mrramsey NEO Reefer Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hudson Ohio Posts: 1,801	Dr. Tim's One & Only Dead Clownfish Misread... __________________ Mike My 120 Build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389417 Current Tank Info: 120g In-Wall \| BA Overflow \| 55g Sump \| SWC Extreme 150 Skimmer \| DIY ATO \| 2 Jebao RW-8\| Fluval SP6 \| Photon 48v2 LED \| GFO and Carbon Last edited by Mrramsey; 05/15/2014 at 08:41 PM.

05/15/2014, 08:46 PM	#5
Mrramsey NEO Reefer Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hudson Ohio Posts: 1,801	I initially posted a response but then realized I misread your post. I had thought you said you cycled the qt with water. There is no good bacteria in water. The ammonia needs to be zero anything above is toxic. __________________ Mike My 120 Build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389417 Current Tank Info: 120g In-Wall \| BA Overflow \| 55g Sump \| SWC Extreme 150 Skimmer \| DIY ATO \| 2 Jebao RW-8\| Fluval SP6 \| Photon 48v2 LED \| GFO and Carbon

05/15/2014, 08:47 PM	#7
scott3569 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Middletown,VA Posts: 929	Well for one you went about it all wrong, you will probably lose the other clown, since you still have amonia..when you do, BEFORE YOU GET ANY MORE LIVE STOCK...educate your self by reading the stickys in this forum and any other forum for that matter.. __________________ I'm in a fishy situation!!! Current Tank Info: 56 gallon 30 x 18 x 22 with a 40gal sump, SCA 302 skimmer, 10 gal QT tank, a hydror 600 power head, 2 enhiem 150 heaters, 49#'s of dry rock, 12#'s of life rock, 40#'s of sand

05/15/2014, 09:27 PM	#9
scott3569 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Middletown,VA Posts: 929	yeah I know what he says, I used his product also, But you need to make sure you are n't going to have any ammonia before thinking about adding fish, and the bacteria product that he sells is suppose to be used with ammonia..So I don't think you read it fully or didn't understand it fully __________________ I'm in a fishy situation!!! Current Tank Info: 56 gallon 30 x 18 x 22 with a 40gal sump, SCA 302 skimmer, 10 gal QT tank, a hydror 600 power head, 2 enhiem 150 heaters, 49#'s of dry rock, 12#'s of life rock, 40#'s of sand

05/15/2014, 08:43 PM	#4
Dangleflow9 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Central VA/ Western MA Posts: 63	Also, while the fish was clearly extremely stressed, if your salinity, pH, temp, etc. were not perfectly identical to your 29G setup, you likely stressed the fish more, quickening the death.

05/15/2014, 09:07 PM	#8
shawnriv Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 185	That's what I get for listening to an "expert" like Dr. Tim. http://www.drtimsaquatics.com

05/15/2014, 09:42 PM	#11
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	I can't say I put much stock in either of the two mentioned. I have known some people in the industry that would like to increase the market place by making it fast and easy, and they leaned this direction, to which i strongly disagree. Nothing good comes in rushing. Sorry for the lesson learned. __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

05/15/2014, 10:43 PM	#12
melvinakshay Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 217	Lol the topic heading was pretty funny. Firstly - If I read it right you bought live rock already. Why did you add bacteria to it ?? Damsels are pretty hardy and I know a lot of them do use them during cycling a tank.. but they aren't bullet proof. Hopefully the other one makes it through. You can't fix the damage done by ammonia. What is the current ammonia/nitrates/nitrites though ? I'm not sure what you added as an ammonia source but with live rock and the added live bacteria it should have been cycled by now.

05/16/2014, 12:41 AM	#13
SwampyBill Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: St. Pete, FL. Posts: 2,369	There's no shortcuts in this hobby. Get other clown in QT ASAP. I'm w/ Davocean--I wouldn't use either product; & definitely wouldn't add fish days after adding ammonia product. Flip the script & imagine trying to breathe in a nasty, smoke-filled room. That would burn your airway & lungs; ammonia will burn a fish's gills. Let a tank cycle on it's own time, 6--8 weeks, or this is a result. Mother Nature comes & bites you in the backside...Good luck w/ other clownfish & let this be a lesson in patience. You'll need it in this hobby--only good thing that happens fast in saltwater is a water change. __________________ I love me some wrasse... & laissez les bon temps rouler! Current Tank Info: 120 gal Vizio Last edited by SwampyBill; 05/16/2014 at 12:50 AM.

05/16/2014, 08:03 AM	#15
scott3569 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Middletown,VA Posts: 929	No matter what happens in your current situation..from now on I would suggest researching everything you do, before you do it. don't jut ask once..ask several times, or at least find out all the information you can about the answers you are given..If you do this I think you will have a much better experience.. there are a lot of chiefs, and a lot of different ways of doing things so it can get confusing..But when you get mostly the same answer on a subject or question at hand, then you can bet it is probably correct __________________ I'm in a fishy situation!!! Current Tank Info: 56 gallon 30 x 18 x 22 with a 40gal sump, SCA 302 skimmer, 10 gal QT tank, a hydror 600 power head, 2 enhiem 150 heaters, 49#'s of dry rock, 12#'s of life rock, 40#'s of sand

05/16/2014, 08:41 AM	#16
Xavibear Crazy Prophet Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 1,008	Time is better than any quick cycle product.

05/16/2014, 12:18 PM	#17
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	THere's no safe quick cycle, IMHO: bacteria can't produce their 'babies' any faster than nature lets them: they have to grow, feed, grow, and divide. And the rock has to acquire bacteria all the way to the core. There's no instant-miracle that will bring anything but the outer skin live. That's the flaw in all these no-waiting products. Bacteria just can't divide fast enough. The fish should be preceded by 4 weeks of snails and crabs eating the algae that grew during your four weeks of cycle. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/16/2014, 12:42 PM	#19
ThisGuy12 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 822	Why do people insist on rushing the bacteria biological cycle? It'll only lead to issues like this including heartache and wasted money. Ammonia and nitrites need to be 0ppm (or around that 0.3 is "okay"). There is only one tried and true method for cycling an that is time. Chemically dosing is only hurting the biological system.

05/16/2014, 12:53 PM	#20
Whistl3r Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Dallas, Ga. Posts: 80	I see people post often saying my ammonia is only so and so. Good rule of thumb, think of ammonia as you think of smoke. How much smoke is ok in the air you breath before you lay on your side and slowly die? Answer = anything above 0 is a problem.

05/17/2014, 05:42 PM	#23
ThisGuy12 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 822	Now now, ammonia at 0.3ppm is within acceptable range. Especially if your tank is overstocked... But I agree dr. Tim's is a waste of money. Patience is needed in this hobby.