5 casualties and 1 M.I.A...

[Iamuhdrummer]

I've been searching the forums and haven't found anything particularly relating to my issue at hand.

Firstly, I have a 190gal system across 3 tanks. The display tank is a 150, with a 30 gallon fuge and a 10 gal return. Flow goes DT>fuge>return tank (houses my pump that returns back to the DT).

I know now that I had over stocked my tank, and was misinformed about certain fish getting along, but with everything being fairly small, the bioload was ok and everyone was getting along. Had their own nook.

Stock:
4 yellow tangs (2" max)
1 hippo tang 1.5"
1 foxface 3.5"
5 green chromis (1"-2")
1 occ. clown
1 blue damsel (freakin jerk)
1 coral beauty 3"
1 pepper mint shrimp
1 skunk cleaner
5 emerald crabs
Crap ton of hermits

Everything seemed to be going ok for the last two months and I noticed two days ago that they were acting odd- not swimming around the tank very still, as if something had startled them. Hovering just outside the live rocks. Same thing the next night.

The next morning, I found 3 dead YT and got them out. They're bodies looked fairly normal- no white spots. Some had brownish areas near their gills, but those were not there while they were alive. That evening I went to test my water and do a change for fear of some chemistry being off- found these specs:
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
15ppm nitrate
8.0 ph.
1.235 salinity

Oh and I found the foxface (dead) and the last YT, dead, waaaaay inside the rocks. Probably due to the crabs pulling it in? Idk. Hippo tang still M.I.A.

I have a power head with the air intake inside of the tank in an effort to oxygenate the tank- is this not enough? I also have an air stone in the return.

Perhaps the biggest question is, are my other fish at risk? The CB, clown, damsel, and chromis are all great. Eating, swimming normally. I got all of the fish from liveaquaria except the clown and damsel. Those are from my old 15gal setup. Could it be an internal parasite? Also- all of my inverts are fine. (In fact, I thought the peppermint shrimp was long gone, hadn't seen him in months til last night)

I can now start rebuilding, but I need my confidence back before this time around.

Thoughts?

[Deinonych]

Originally Posted by Iamuhdrummer

1.235 salinity

I assume this is a typo. If not, no fish could survive at that specific gravity.

Were any of your fish quarantined? What/when was the last addition to the tank?

[Iamuhdrummer]

Whoops! You are correct! 1.0235 salinity. Last addition was the coral beauty in early July. The 11th I think...? Yellow Tangs and foxface were added about 2weeks beforehand. The hippo was added with the CB.

[Iamuhdrummer]

Oh- and no quarantine. I'm maxed out in space in my home and the wife does not want yet another tank... :\

[GroktheCube]

Discoloration around gills often indicates inflammation.

Could be from any number of things. IMHO, hypoxia, velvet, brook, or flukes are most likely.

Generally, stocking fish without a QT is a bit like playing Russian Roulette. Some people have good luck, others not so much.

[Deinonych]

Low oxygen is certainly a possibility. Tangs need well-oxygenated water, so it's possible that killed them. You say you have a powerhead - what kind/size is it and how is it oriented in the tank? Is the top of the aquarium covered? With that many fish, you need good surface agitation for proper gas exchange. For example, I have two Vortech MP40s and a skimmer in addition to my return pump. The surface of my tank is heavily agitated. I also have an open top (with nylon screening to prevent jumpers), so gas exchange is very high.

Other than low oxygen, it's really hard to say for certain, since none of the fish have been through quarantine.

[Iamuhdrummer]

I have a flu all fx5 empty- purely for flow purposes, a maxi jet 30 towards the upper middle (this one has the air intake from out side of the lids and tank) a maxi jet 50 on the left wall 55% of the way down to push water through rocks and back towards the middle of the tank and a power head (not sure what brand, but had the number 50 attached to it) on the right wall about a 1/5 from the surface pointed downward and forward to create a current across the front of the tank.

It's a 6' tank divided into 3 areas on top- glass lids on the ends, open in the middle. I'll Ty taking off the lids tonight. Is there a way to measure oxygenation?

Also my remaining fish are acting rather skiddish currently. Possible stress from the other deaths and my digging around to get them out?

[Deinonych]

Redox meters can measure the redox potential of the aquarium and cost around $100: http://www.marinedepot.com/HM_Digita...TEMOID-vi.html

As far as the fishes' behavior, I wouldn't be surprised if the fish deaths affected them. It has been demonstrated that killed sharks produce a pheromone that keeps other sharks away, so maybe something similar happens with reef fishes.

[Iamuhdrummer]

Well, sadly, my last few fishes have succumbed to the illness as well. I'm now convinced that it was some sort of gill disease/parasite. This is because the occ clown fought the longest and hardest. Toward the end, his gills were massively swollen and extended. No mucus that I could tell. Whatever it was it moved swiftly, 2 days max. Very sad.

However, I've observed my parameters to be wonderful throughout the whole thing- which confuses me. I guess the live rock is extremely effective at processing such things. Now it seems my tank is over run with copepods and the like. I've also seen these worm like creatures- look kind of like baby bristleworms, BUT they move more like centipedes.

I've tried to look up what they are and will try to snag a pic next time I see one. Is this possibly the parasite??

My other questions are- if it was a disease, how long should I wait to put in fish again, or will it just remain dormant until the proper host is available? Ditto the same question, but if it was a parasite? Is there a time frame that is best?

My cleaner shrimp and peppermint shrimp, hermits and emerald crabs also continue to be healthy and active.

[Iamuhdrummer]

Here's a really bad pic.

[snorvich]

Well, if you are going to pack fish in and avoid any quarantine protocols, you are likely going to have the same issue (or similar) again. I would rethink that strategy. Leaving tank without fish for 12 weeks should eliminate any parasites.

[ca1ore]

Years ago I explained to my wife that I either needed to setup a QT tank or I'd end up spending 5 - 10x more on fish ...... now I have three of them! QT tanks, that is, not wives

[usingthejohn]

Velvet is the only thing I can think of that can kill off that many fish that quickly.

However late last year I had a run where 14 of my 17 fish died. I actually introduced black ich through non-qtd fish. They all died within 7 days.

Did fish have any spots on them?

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by usingthejohn

Velvet is the only thing I can think of that can kill off that many fish that quickly.

However late last year I had a run where 14 of my 17 fish died. I actually introduced black ich through non-qtd fish. They all died within 7 days.

Did fish have any spots on them?

Some virulent bacterial infection can also kill quickly.

[usingthejohn]

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

Some virulent bacterial infection can also kill quickly.

I don't disagree. Sorry if I sounded know it all - like haha. Wasn't my intent.

[ca1ore]

Shooting in the dark, I'm afraid. Last fish added in July doesn't preclude something like velvet, though it seems unlikely. Could have come in on an invert I suppose. Quick duration contraindicative of an internal parasite (other than Alien ).Swollen/discolored gills suggests ammonia, but you tested for that so ...... maybe poison of some kind?