Please help something is killing the other things in my new tank!

[Mendel33]

So I just set up a new tank its about 35 gallons. In it I put 2 pistol shrimp, a randalli goby, 2 hermit crabs, a few snails, an emerald crab, a few pieces of coral, a ruby red dragonet and a skunk shrimp. In the past couple of days one of my hermit crabs and my dragonet were both killed by something. The hermit crab looked like he was ripped out of his shell and the dragonet I saw was being eaten by the emerald crab but I wasn't sure if he killed it. If anyone knows what could've killed either one of them please make a suggestion so I can remove whatever is making the problem from my tank. I suspect either the pistol shrimp of the emerald crab as the ones who killed the fish and hermit crab.

[tmz]

Hard to say. If water parameters are good and the fish are disease free and have been quarantined and fed well it could be a hitchiking mantis shrimp . Rally need more information to be helpful.

[Coelli]

I suspect 2 things:

1. The dragonet starved to death and the crab was eating the body. Dragonets need to eat pods and your tank is too new to sustain it.
2. That might have been a hermit crab molt, not the actual hermit crab (molts look just like dead hermits).

How new is the tank? Could it have cycled and killed the fish?

[Tsancho82]

+1 on Coelli's comment. The first molt I saw freaked me out! It looks like they literally rip off their arms off their bodies and grow new arms over night. Unlike the clear molt a shrimp or snake will leave behind, Hermits molt have full coloration.

As far as the dragonet, more information is needed to determine it's death. But starvation is our lead suspect.

[MondoBongo]

Originally Posted by Coelli

I suspect 2 things:

1. The dragonet starved to death and the crab was eating the body. Dragonets need to eat pods and your tank is too new to sustain it.
2. That might have been a hermit crab molt, not the actual hermit crab (molts look just like dead hermits).

How new is the tank? Could it have cycled and killed the fish?

i bet Coelli is right on the money. +1

[ecksreef]

Agree. Starve and molt. If the tank was not cycled, unfortunately it's just the beginning of deaths.

[CoralOfDuty]

dragonets are tough. dont attempt unless you have a fully stocked pod collection. or you make sure the pet store shows you that they eat frozen.

[MondoBongo]

Originally Posted by CoralOfDuty

or you make sure the pet store shows you that they eat frozen.

this is not a substitute for having enough pods to supply them.

eating frozen is supplemental only, and should by no means be used as anything but.

[gone fishin]

I agree with Coelli's post.

[Sk8r]

Likely. A dragonet is best in a 100 gallon tank with well-established rock and sump; or at very least in a 50 with 20 gallons of mature, cheato-packed fuge with rock and sand.

[Goldndoodle]

How long was the hermit in the tank before he become a "shell jacking" victim?

I've had a couple of hermits go "belly up" shortly after adding them to my nanoCube. Then the other hermits move in to do what they're intended to do - scavenge like jackals and clean up the crime scene.

The emerald may look tough, but they're pretty timid, and tend to stay to themselves. I've seen some of my hermits get away with stealing food from my emerald.

I agree with every one else above concerning the cause of death on the Dragonet - lack of copepods led to starvation, the emerald crab was just helping clean up the remains.

[Mendel33]

How long do dragonets take to starve? I had mine for only around 2 to 3 days before I found it dead and is there a good way to distinguish between a molted hermit crab and a dead one? Also how long should one wait to add a dragonet?

[Cowdogz]

Originally Posted by Mendel33

So I just set up a new tank its about 35 gallons.

Define "just set up."

[Mendel33]

The tank has been running for around 2 weeks

[MondoBongo]

Oh god? Are you kidding? It's not even cycled. They likely died from ammonia toxicity. Get those other poor animals out of there now. You're going to kill the rest of them.

[Mendel33]

The guy from the store that set up the tank said that adding stuff was ok…I'm very confused now

[Cowdogz]

The guy was apparently wrong. You're not the first. I've actually heard of chain stores sending people home with a new aquarium, equipment, salt mix, and fish. Time to start reading on setting up and cycling a new tank.

[Mendel33]

Does having live rock/sand make a difference? I thought adding the "cleanup crew" could be done pretty soon after setting up the tank.

[Cowdogz]

As previous people have noted, you're likely dealing with separate issues. It's possible your crab molted and you're seeing the old shell. The dragonet may have died from ammonia. Some stores like to claim that using live rock and live sand means you don't have to cycle the tank. It's dubious at best.

[btucker7587]

Originally Posted by Mendel33

Does having live rock/sand make a difference? I thought adding the "cleanup crew" could be done pretty soon after setting up the tank.

The CUC is added shortly after the actual cycle. Two weeks is hardly a reasonable time for a cycle.

Read this -> http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1031074


It will guide you through the process. I also implore you to either take the fish back to the LFS or let a friend take care of them while you establish your system.

[btucker7587]

Originally Posted by Cowdogz

As previous people have noted, you're likely dealing with separate issues. It's possible your crab molted and you're seeing the old shell. The dragonet may have died from ammonia. Some stores like to claim that using live rock and live sand means you don't have to cycle the tank. It's dubious at best.

I actually experimented with that; I used NSW, live sand from the ocean and live rock from the ocean. No cycle...but the nuisance critters were everywhere. Was a fun project though.

[Dexter1258]

One of the worst things I did when setting up my tank was adding a pistol shrimp. That thing is aggressive as all get out. He even attacks the turkey baster I target feed him with. My guess is he got ur hermit crab like he got one of mine. I wanted a peaceful tank that was relaxing but Cletus may get traded in.

[pisanoal]

Originally Posted by MondoBongo

Oh god? Are you kidding? It's not even cycled. They likely died from ammonia toxicity. Get those other poor animals out of there now. You're going to kill the rest of them.

This is a very mis-informed post and you jumped to conclusions. When using live rock and sand, the cycle is very short if at all. On all three tanks I set up,y tests barely spiked. There are countless other experiences the same. When adding ammonia sources,it converted to nitrates quickly in my tanks indicating a completed cycle. As long as you mix the saltwater appropriately and the live rock is transported carefully and stays wet, there should be very little die off.

That being said, to the OP... You added way too many animals way too fast. You need to let your bacterial population catch up to be able to hand the increase in bioload. And you also added animals that have a very select live diet that require a large very well established (at least 6 months) tank with a refugium depending on tank size. Do not put dragonets in a tank that small unless you have a large fuge.

[MondoBongo]

Not true pisanoal. I, like most others here, used live sand and live rocks. I, like most others here, experienced a cycle.

When you do not wait for your cycle, and then immediately stock up heavily, you will exceed your bacteria's ability to process the ammonia, and therefore end up kicking off another cycle.

I think the proof is in the heavy stock list, and dead animals.

Also you can't tell me I'm wrong in one paragraph, then immediately agree with my assessment in the next paragraph.

[nmotz]

Pisanoal, I think it is technically possible to have a shortened cycle IF a number of factors are just right (like you mentioned). The problem is that usually one or more of those factors is not right (i.e. LR doesn't say wet, insufficient amount of LR, etc). This means that for most people it is likely that there will be a cycle of at least 3-4 weeks in duration. On a New to the Hobby board I think we can agree it's probably the safest option to tell newbies to prepare for a month long cycle as opposed to helping them find ways around it that can end in disaster. I agree with Mondo that in the OP's case, it is likely that his tank was not fully cycled.
So, to sum up, while what you are saying about a short cycle is technically possible, it is unrealistic for most people to expect that. Very, very few successful hobbyists recommend a short (less than 3 wks) cycle when starting up a first tank. I think it is very telling that it's usually LFS' that do that!