drummereef's 180g in-wall build

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by Taqpol

I was always under the impression that TDS creep occurred when you filled a small container over and over again vs. one large container one time. In fact, I've never heard of problems with unsealed containers, and I make up batches of RO/DI one 44 gallon brute (with the lid on) at a time. Could you elaborate a tad more on what you mean?

I'm not basing any of my theories on fact... In the past I had noticed a slight increase in TDS in my top-off reservoir but nothing that ever concerned me. I also noticed some increase in TDS in my Brute but that could be from salt residue / film etc... I haven't really done a "scientific" evaluation of my reservoirs lately though so I couldn't tell you if there's significant creep over a few days or not - or if there's a significant difference between 5 gallons or 55 gallons. Do you regularly test your RO/DI reservoir to see if there's creep?

Part of the reason for using a 5g bucket for my top-off is the manual backup safety measure. I manually turn a valve to fill the bucket which stops the flow via the float valve. I refill as the bucket empties, roughly every 2 days. That way, worst case, only 5g's gets dumped into the sump vs having a flood. Just a little piece of mind since my top-off reservoir isn't fully automated with a fill timer. Ideally I'd have a solenoid valve plumbed to a float switch in the reservoir to automate fill times.

[cromedogg33]

What's the fun in that

I have mine just on a float valve in a 5g bucket that I routinely check. I just hooked up a 55g drum to a float valve too but will probably use a valve on that.

Are you worried about your tunze flooding your sump or the ro/di not shutting off?

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by cromedogg33

What's the fun in that

I have mine just on a float valve in a 5g bucket that I routinely check. I just hooked up a 55g drum to a float valve too but will probably use a valve on that.

Are you worried about your tunze flooding your sump or the ro/di not shutting off?

Both. I'm not as concerned with the Tunze Osmolator since it has a built-in backup but the float valve in the top-off reservoir does worry me a bit. You always hear the "not if but when" stories about float valves... Personally I've never had a problem with either of mine in the 1.5-2yrs, but their usage is relatively light. (knock on wood).

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


The Kalk Doser is officially online. It ran a couple of cycles before it's daily off period but is scheduled to fire up again overnight tonight. What I wanted to achieve by controlling it with the Apex was small, semi-frequent additions of Kalk during the lights-out period. Here's what I came up with...

Total demand of the system currently is ~0.168dkh per day. So based upon the Reef Chemistry Calculator, over a 16 hour lights-out period I would need to dose 1220ml of Kalk. So I divided this down into two doses per hour, or one dose every 30 minutes. This equates to ~38ml/30 minutes. The BRS doser I purchased doses 50ml/minute or 0.83/second. So it takes roughly 45 seconds for the doser to dose about 38ml. This is repeated every 30 minutes for 16 hours. I love math... NOT!


Here's what the code in the Apex looks like. The doser starts running at 3am, cycles for 45 seconds and repeats every 30 minutes. The doser is scheduled to be off from 7pm-3am, shortly before and after the lights-on period. I also put a safeguard where if the pH should rise above 8.4 the doser will turn off.

Fallback OFF
OSC 000:00/000:45/029:15 Then ON
If Time 19:00 to 02:59 Then OFF
If pH > 08.40 Then OFF

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


Well here's some wild and wacky stuff... The API Nitrate test kit I had been using was getting old so I decided to pick up another at the LFS today. Well, the results were a little shocking to say the least. All along I thought my NO3 was sticking around 17-20ppm but after testing with the new kit they are actually reading ~5ppm. I thought the colors in the corals were starting to come back slightly so I couldn't see how the NO3 was still ~20ppm but didn't have a fresh kit to compare numbers.

So suggestions guys... Should I remove some of the pellets from the reactor now that I know for sure they've kicked in, or leave it alone for a while and see what happens?




Colors are a little darker in the pic but you can see the difference between the two tests.

NEW Test Kit - Left..................................................................OLD Test Kit - Right

[suoirotoN]

Your tank and whole setup is truly GODLY! I want it sooooo bad .

[psteeleb]

I'd check it in 24 and see if it's still dropping then decide to cut back some

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by suoirotoN

Your tank and whole setup is truly GODLY! I want it sooooo bad .

Haha, thanks suoirotoN.

Originally Posted by psteeleb

I'd check it in 24 and see if it's still dropping then decide to cut back some

Sounds like a good plan. Will do.

[iwishtofish]

Wowsa! How old was the older kit? That has me a bit worried. Some of my kits are coming up on a year, now. Just curious - do you use a separate syringe to measure the 5ml?

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by iwishtofish

Wowsa! How old was the older kit? That has me a bit worried. Some of my kits are coming up on a year, now. Just curious - do you use a separate syringe to measure the 5ml?

Crazy right?? I'm guessing the kit was ~1yr or maybe slightly older. I honestly can't remember. With the API kits, I use the line marked on the cuvette. I just make sure the bottom of the meniscus is right on the line. Haven't used a Salifert NO3 kit for a while but I always used the supplied syringe for that one.

[iwishtofish]

Originally Posted by drummereef

Crazy right?? I'm guessing the kit was ~1yr or maybe slightly older. I honestly can't remember. With the API kits, I use the line marked on the cuvette. I just make sure the bottom of the meniscus is right on the line. Haven't used a Salifert NO3 kit for a while but I always used the supplied syringe for that one.

I've stopped putting faith in their lines. Some people say it doesn't really matter that much, but I think it does when so little water is involved.



Edit:

And this is about what I get with my alk kit tube, when I use my syringe (hope it's accurate):

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by iwishtofish

I've stopped putting faith in their lines. Some people say it doesn't really matter that much, but I think it does when so little water is involved.

Thanks for the pics. The lines on the two cuvettes from the NO3 kits I have (new and old) seem to be about the same, so that's good. But I did get about the same amount of sample increase that you did in the second picture using a 5ml syringe. It's about 1/8" more water in the cuvette when I used a 5ml syringe. I retested NO3 using the 5ml syringe this time and got the same results as yesterday when I just went by the line on the cuvette... ~5ppm NO3.

I'm wondering if because the color scale is relatively wide, meaning 20ppm-10ppm-5ppm-0ppm, that the nominal difference in water used in the sample doesn't really matter in this case. I can see if it was a Titrate style test or if the results were in 1ppm or even 3ppm increments it would make a huge difference. Don't really know, but I'll probably use the syringe now just to limit the possibility of error between tests.

[drummereef]

OK guys, brainstorming ways I can easily mod my Nextreef SMR1 biopellet reactor to be a recirculating reactor... As you know I feed the reactor from my manifold. I have plenty of headroom for extra flow since the system is run off a Reeflo Dart. I have a valves to regulate each reactor (not show in pic below) I'm currently using on the manifold. The SMR1 is a down-flow style reactor similar to the TLF or Octopus brand reactors. Flow travels down a pipe through the middle of the reactor and exits through an adapter on the lid.

So let me know if this would work or not. I don't see why it wouldn't but I might be overlooking something. I think I can just utilize the flow from the manifold and TEE off the inlet and output side of the SMR1 reactor. I figure it would be an inexpensive way of making it recirculate and avoid using an extra pump. Here's a drawing... be gentle my drawing skills are crude to say the least.

[psteeleb]

the flow between the tees will be slow and actually take away from the flow through the reactor. It's going to act as a bypass

unless pumped with a recirc the flow through the reactor wont be greater then what goes out. Just add a MJ in that bypass

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by psteeleb

the flow between the tees will be slow and actually take away from the flow through the reactor. It's going to act as a bypass

unless pumped with a recirc the flow through the reactor wont be greater then what goes out. Just add a MJ in that bypass

Ah, I see it now. Too much flow in, not enough out. Back to plan B.

[cromedogg33]

Why are you trying to recirc the pellets anyway? What is your thinking behind it?

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by cromedogg33

Why are you trying to recirc the pellets anyway? What is your thinking behind it?

The "theory" behind a recirculating pellet reactor is to independently control the tumbling of the pellets and effluent from the reactor. This takes some of the guesswork out of running pellets. You always want to keep the pellets tumbling, that's a given. But running too many pellets or at too high of flow rate can reduce NO3 too quickly or even strip the water of all available nutrient. This can stress corals etc... So, if we can keep the pellets tumbling but be able to slow the effluent from the reactor to match the bio load of the system, then a more balanced bacterial population can be achieved within the reactor, causing a more controlled reduction in overall nutrient levels.

...And it's totally fun to mod things.

[psteeleb]

Originally Posted by drummereef

...And it's totally fun to mod things.

the real truth exposes itself given enough time

[nrosdal]

you wouldn't get to mod it but this is kinda what you wanna achieve...right?

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog...-control-valve

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by psteeleb

the real truth exposes itself given enough time

Ha! I thought you'd like that one.

Originally Posted by nrosdal

you wouldn't get to mod it but this is kinda what you wanna achieve...right?

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog...-control-valve

That's the general idea, yes.

[psteeleb]

Originally Posted by nrosdal

you wouldn't get to mod it but this is kinda what you wanna achieve...right?

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog...-control-valve

what that does is split the flow going in/out into a lesser stream going into the reactor while bypassing it. So if offers some control through the biopellets being less then the through in/out

think of it this way
100gph inlet
50 in to the reactor
50 bypass
100 out

what we want is more in the reactor for tumbling then we what for the in/out

say we want 200gph in the reactor but only 25gph into and out of the bio-pellet system. you need a pump to increase the internal flow from the 25 in to something more

in will always equal out

[Reefahholic]

Tank is looking great with the new sand!

[jc-reef]

Originally Posted by drummereef

UPDATE:


Well here's some wild and wacky stuff... The API Nitrate test kit I had been using was getting old so I decided to pick up another at the LFS today. Well, the results were a little shocking to say the least. All along I thought my NO3 was sticking around 17-20ppm but after testing with the new kit they are actually reading ~5ppm. I thought the colors in the corals were starting to come back slightly so I couldn't see how the NO3 was still ~20ppm but didn't have a fresh kit to compare numbers.

So suggestions guys... Should I remove some of the pellets from the reactor now that I know for sure they've kicked in, or leave it alone for a while and see what happens?




Colors are a little darker in the pic but you can see the difference between the two tests.

NEW Test Kit - Left..................................................................OLD Test Kit - Right

WOW~~ I wonder if I am having the same issue. I have an API NO3 test kit that has been recently testing my water ~20ppm, but my corals have never been as colorful. I thought that at ~20ppm, I would have brown SPS. I only recently tested NO3 again cause someone asked what my parameters were and I was curious myself....and the last time I used it was probably a year ago...and it was always near 0...lol. I got the kit when I started my tank a little over 2 years ago. I need to get a new test kit and double check. That is crazy!!

Thanks for sharing this!

----------

[110galreef]

Brett.....

Stop thinking and analyzing......

Its driving you mad!!

Seroiusly tho, I feel you are still trying to mess to much. Honestly, i would pull the pellets and let the tank do it's thing or go very small amount of them.

Also the over testing is going to lead to you going insane. Keep your calk, alk & mg spot on, let your corals setlle ina nd see hwo they look, if browning start tolook at your nutrient issue and slowly tackle one thing at a time so you know what is or isn't working. The test value in general isn't the key, i think it is more the directions of the test....ie(down trend=less of what your testing, up trend, increasing qualntity of what your testing, consistent tests...level values and KEY)

Overall things appear to be fine. Just over analyzed!

KISS:

Good Flow....(check)
Good lighting....(check)
RO/DI......(check)
ATO....(check)
regular WC....(check)
good live rock....(check) but may need to add more to sump as stock increases
ALK, CAL, Mg ....steady....(check)
carbon....(check)

Feed your fish and enjoy!!

We all have seen many very successful tanks with 5-10 Nitrates, .03-.05+ PO4, heck even red bugs and what not and still excellent SPS tanks.

As long as colors are there and polyps extension as well...then fine.

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by Reefahholic

Tank is looking great with the new sand!

Thank you Reefahholic!

Originally Posted by jc-reef

WOW~~ I wonder if I am having the same issue. I have an API NO3 test kit that has been recently testing my water ~20ppm, but my corals have never been as colorful. I thought that at ~20ppm, I would have brown SPS. I only recently tested NO3 again cause someone asked what my parameters were and I was curious myself....and the last time I used it was probably a year ago...and it was always near 0...lol. I got the kit when I started my tank a little over 2 years ago. I need to get a new test kit and double check. That is crazy!!

Thanks for sharing this!

----------

Wow, very interesting jc-reef. I just wonder once these API kits hit their age limit if they start trending upwards like this. Thanks for posting!

Originally Posted by 110galreef

Brett.....

Stop thinking and analyzing......

Its driving you mad!!

Seroiusly tho, I feel you are still trying to mess to much. Honestly, i would pull the pellets and let the tank do it's thing or go very small amount of them.

Also the over testing is going to lead to you going insane. Keep your calk, alk & mg spot on, let your corals setlle ina nd see hwo they look, if browning start tolook at your nutrient issue and slowly tackle one thing at a time so you know what is or isn't working. The test value in general isn't the key, i think it is more the directions of the test....ie(down trend=less of what your testing, up trend, increasing qualntity of what your testing, consistent tests...level values and KEY)

Overall things appear to be fine. Just over analyzed!

KISS:

Good Flow....(check)
Good lighting....(check)
RO/DI......(check)
ATO....(check)
regular WC....(check)
good live rock....(check) but may need to add more to sump as stock increases
ALK, CAL, Mg ....steady....(check)
carbon....(check)

Feed your fish and enjoy!!

We all have seen many very successful tanks with 5-10 Nitrates, .03-.05+ PO4, heck even red bugs and what not and still excellent SPS tanks.

As long as colors are there and polyps extension as well...then fine.

Ha! All good points 110g. My corals and fish are definitely the first measure I take when looking at the tank. Test kits are always second. I'm certain there's an ongoing nutrient issue though. There has been a consistent browning of just about all the SPS in the tank with the exception of my green slimers. Battling the Dino issue, I went through a period of a few months where I didn't do any water changes. As you could imagine, NO3 became an issue. NO3 was upwards of 20-25ppm during the worst period. Had a nice explosion of bubble algae to confirm the problem.

The no water change period was necessary (and just about the only thing that worked) simply because it limited the trace elements that the Dinos feed on. But the end result was a NO3 issue. Even recently, I did a couple water changes and saw the Dinos start to come back, so I knew making even more frequent water changes would lead me back to where I was months ago.

That brings me to a couple weeks ago when I decided to put the pellets back online. I needed to employ a method to reduce nutrients but not feed the Dinos. Honestly the tank hasn't looked this good for probably 9-12 months. Now that the NO3 is down to ~5ppm I'm starting to see some color come back in the SPS. First time in probably 6-9 months. I'm going to continue to monitor how they look and if things start to take a turn I'll reevaluate. But so far so good. The biopellet mod is still in the works, that should pretty much eliminate the concern of completely stripping the water of all available nutrients (in theory).